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True. The Fascinate and the Epic 4G have flash. The latter also comes with a sliding Qwerty keyboard, front camera, and 4G netwrok support; the only Galaxy S to include those features.
All other Galaxies neither have any camera flash nor any of those Epic 4G's extra features. That is, the Captivate and the Vibrant, and i9000 which is the international version.
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Posted: 2010-11-15 03:43:18
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Symbian is a dying platform. Period. Sure it may eventually sell mounds in the lower end market, where 90% of customers are probably unaware that they're even buying a smartphone, but you only have a single manufacturer who is prepared to release phones on the platform. There is no long term market for this OS and every other manufacturer has come to this realisation, even Nokia itself with its development of its Maemo/Meego platform for its future high end devices.

Symbian^3 is just stop gap. The previous version was laggy, buggy, incosistent, and not competitive with modern devices. It didn't even have basic features like threaded messaging, things that even other company's dumbphones had already come out with. All Symbian^3 is doing is bringing itself back to a barely competitive position with the other manufacturers. There's nothing revolutionary about it. There are only so many ways Nokia can continue to dress the OS to keep it 'modern'.
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Posted: 2010-11-15 04:45:46
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LOL... go back and read your post... then try and tell me that's not 100% hater talk. .... The fact is Nokia is a VERY successful mobile device manufacture maybe even more so than your company (IMO) and I'd image they not only have a business plan to remain on top of the industry but also to improve their products.

In 1984 Apple sold its first computers which were successful for a while... then in the 90's when PC's were all the rage, similar comments were made then about apple/Macintosh and how the company was "done" because PC's were SOOO much better ..... Sound familiar? The same was said about the T-mobile G1 when it first came out... they didn't get it... simply didn't understand/comprehend why that device was so cool. And although cutting edge for its time never got "iPhone" status... Now look at android and iPhone.... Due to HUGE amounts of advertising dollars telling you its the best thing ever, you and others are praising it like the last OS that will ever rule.... simply not true. Im not sure about Melbourne televison but here in the US, you NEVER see Nokia advertising via TV spots yet they still manage to sell LOTS of phones here. All the meantime you can't watch ONE TV show without seeing HTC, Motorola, Samsung or iPhone telling you and your kids how much you HAVE TO HAVE that stuff.

Trust me, if nokia is sticking with symbian its because they have plan for the platform and unlike you are thinking past next weeks release of the latest trendy Android device. Furthermore, I believe that although people are typically sheep and trend followers some actually remain loyal to a quality product (ie apple and in this case nokia) and those consumer dollars will continue to fund their existence.

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Posted: 2010-11-15 14:52:15
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@mlife
Apple was suffering in the 90s because they were producing bad hardware and more importantly had an OS going nowhere. The reason why Apple is rebounded in the personal computer market is because it restarted with their OS, moving to Mac OS X, removing backward compatibility to create an operating system with focus on developing it for future technologies.

Nokia is in the same position. It's got an OS (Symbian) which is old and falling behind the curve in terms of innovation. They're currently working on Meego, attempting to create a fresh break from the past and create a platform which will carry them into the future. I'm not hating on Nokia, I'm just pointing out that Symbian is not the OS of Nokia's future, if anything it will be Meego.
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Posted: 2010-11-15 16:35:06
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+1, nail on the head, especialy about S60v5, i actualy cant believe Nokia/Symbian thought they could release such an incomplete and unstable version of S60. S60v5 just doesnt feel as robust as S60v3.
There's absolutely no Nokia hate in your comment,and many of your points have been highlighted by many, even by AllAboutSymbian shockingly enough.

[/quote]
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Posted: 2010-11-15 18:44:13
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So many brainwashed just everywhere..

It's no secret that media controls the world in these times..
Well wide-spread ignorance does help in the process as well to be honest..

Anyway, you know why Android hyped so much?

Simple. Google invested in it. Regardless of the pros and cons of that OS!
Android is being marketed separately by Google.. And hugely too..

If you watch or listen to any main American media outlet at teh moment, Android's ads with that greenish little droid and attractive statements are all over the place.
With Symbian, Nokia can't do the same..
They promote their diverse handsets directly instead.. That is you'd come across Nokia N8's ads all over the net.. But never Symbian.. Nokia advertises the features in each of their phones.. As to the operating system, it wont get mentioned.. Simply because in order to make all those feature available and working there should be some OS running them.. For the average user this the least to worry about and the last thing to ask/know about!

For Nokia, they invest that much in Symbian, not to advertise it, and attract end users by some small greenish icons and some exaggerated description..
For them they care to have an efficient stable OS that could run on the least requirements possilbe while enabling them to offer all the killer features at top performace then advertise those and provide a decent functionality as well as a friendly UI..
The last part is still being worked on.. However, the main and harder part is already completed by Symbian^3!


There are two aspects to discuss in this matter..
Popularity, public acceptance, and hence the sales of each OS..
The technical level of each OS at the moment and regarding coming upgrades where it's very well discussed in previous posts in this thread and everything should plain clear in this aspect as there are no speculations to make..

And for that member claiming that the majority of Symbian phones owners don't even realize they own a smartphone, what about Android owners who don't even know what Android exactly supposed to be?
Most of Android phones owners, either went for Nexus 1 jsut because it was first Google's phone and pretty much hyped, or for the Samsung's Galaxy due to teh excessive advertising the firm commited for that piece of hardware specially the Super AMOLED screen as if it comes from some other world dimension, or HTC phones because of the boost they got making the Nexus1 and due to the over-estimated Sense UI..

And as mlife said: People going into mobile shops asking for droid phones. "Hello, could you give me a droid phone please."

The wind will soon calm down..

Actually, analyzing the market's future:
Samsung aren't relying that much on Android. They went with the flow and introduced a phone with teh same general Android approach, huge screen, tiny camera, custom UI.. Just to profit from the situation you know.. With Bada now, and they seem to be endorsing Windows Phone more, don't be surprised if they drop Android all of a sudden if Galaxy's sales drop a bit down!
HTC are relying on Android as much as Windows Phone.. A two way for them..
SE are b*llshit and in deep sh!t! They aren't made for smartphones.. And they play an insignificant role really!
Motorolla will stay Motorolla regardless of the OS they make. Despite them benifiting from Android quite a bit, with their Droids, but their reputation will stay teh same. At teh end of the day, they are making the worst Androids in the market. Worst UI, and worst features package.
And LG are going down the road quickly as it seems, with or without Android..


The way I see it, Nokia are worth all of Samsung, LG, Motorolla, HTC, and SE combined!
We might not need to go into the next year to be certain about that. Just this quarter would show it all...

For the mean time, for the ignorant I say read some more and grow some brains that think all by itself..
I thought by discussing such a topic over here, I would come across some knowledgable members, who know teh stuff and talk with some objectivity. It seems the most are just influenced by huge amount of b*llshit floating all over the place..

Anyway, and as to the market enthusiasts, I simply say nothing is certain!
The following two quarters will be decisive as it seems, maybe not though.. But still, it's too early to judge.

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Posted: 2010-11-15 21:46:51
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^
Wtf?

Small greenish icons? Exaggerated description i dont get how the greenish icon would help as you go on to say that most didnt go for Android due to Android but:

do you have any proof of this? If im not mistaken the NexusOne didnt even do so well, and its now only for developers or 2nd hand.
Please explain what exactly this "exaggerated description"???
Interesting you should say "Stable OS" as the N96, N97, N97mini etc...were anything but stable, and browsing through just a tiny bit at Nokia Discussion, quite a lot are having constant reboots, or dead N8s, here's just one example:
http://discussions.europe.nok[....]and-can-t-charging/td-p/778960
Stable huh?
Androids have bugs, no doubt, but it seems Symbians still take the cake, they require a ton of updates, my 5800 is sitting on v51 and anyone can tell you there's still countless bugs, still a lot of reboots/freezes then reboots, especialy when theme effects and auto rotate are on.
Effecient? To a certain extent, have you used a X10Mini next to a E52 or E5? The E5 rocks a 600mhz CPU with 256mb RAM, same as X10Mini, yet the X10mini blows it away in speed, whether it be opening up a ton of emails, a heavy web page. Ofcourse the E52 has longer battery life thanks to its 1500mAh batt, it did have to trade off a AF Camera to be slim and have that battery, while X10Mini has a little 960mah or so. Same comparison done with the Milestone, Androids can run just fine,if not better on low end hardware.


Samsung are catching up to Nokia rapidly, have you watched how they have continued to how much they have increased every quater for the past 2years, dont under-estimate them, Samsung are already acting like acting like a market leader, they are not far off from obtaining that title.
As for HTC, SE and Moto, they certainly arent much of a threat to Nokia indivdualy, but they are part of the reason Android is so big, together they can eat away Nokia's share, in smartphones.




Absolutely no need to get offensive just because some of us dont agree with you.

The amount of app development, the huge increase in market share globaly etc... by Android all speaks for itself, Shaliron hit the nail on the head, sorry if you didnt like it False Morel, but it is what it is.
I dont think there is anymore reason to go on with this discussion if you're going to get offensive, im done, Android will continue to eat away at Symbian share and its fans, not my problem if you cant accept that.

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Posted: 2010-11-16 01:41:27
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inside my mind.

'Demand and supply'

and not all people 'GEEK' as you. So friendly UI in green logo, is GREAT.
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Posted: 2010-11-16 02:34:06
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What about half of them going for the little greenish droid and the other half for the other stuff I mentioned..

The point I wanted to make is that using this logic, one can apply it on every side.. It's not far from the truth either!
This is what happening. Funny as it could get, this is how the public is driven by media!

For instance, adding to what I wrote in a sarcastic way, some could go for the N8 just because it's the latest flagship from Nokia.
Some would go for it just because it has a huge "thingy" in that camera that make it the best in the market..
Some would go for it just because it's available in orange (no offense for you etaab )..

In brief, this is how things are going.
And this is why I divided this dicussion into two parts.
One concerning the makret shares and the sales, where teh technical stuff play the minimal role!

And the technical part where some who care for what the OS can offer them, and what that high-end smartphone is really capable of..



Again, I just wanted to show the members going against Symbian for the wrong reasons what an illogic they are using..



Watch those Google ads.
And it'S not something bad! This is called smart marketing. They have all the right to do it.. And I salute them for that success..
It's simply working for them.

Same as those funny Appe guys.. That developer in the official iPhone 4 promo refering to facetime as unbelievable and seemed like to cum onto the screen with enthusiasm, while Nokia had a front camera running on both 3G and Wifi five years before Apple even considered developing the iPhone! And they promote it as an innovation.

Anyway, this is meant for the ignorant weak minded. But it works. Since those make up the majority!



How many times should I post Symbian's story over and over again so that you stop going back to Symbian^1 and high-light its shortcomings?!!

Should I go back to early Android versions? I don't have to go back too much in time. Android 1.6 isn't that old, isn't it?
Anyway, we have Symbian^3 now.

And as to those dead N8's and other rebooting ones and whatever, what private or support forum for any handset doesn't have these users with their problems?
Just zoom out a bit, act a bit objective and mature, and look at the wider image including millions of N8's in use.



There is no perfect design, no perfect OS, not even a perfect app or tiny code of programming. There is always room for improving, and room for every bug to squeeze in and then get crushed out.



You are comparing two different OS with versions up to three years difference in age?! And on a two different pieces of hardware each made for different purprose?
And don't ask me why Nokia went with that outdated versoin of Symbian on the E5. I don't know.
But we have Symbian^3 now.. Stick to that.



Yes, I know about the Samsung rise. However, they still have a long way to go!
Because obviously they are still far off from obtaining the title?!!

Anyway, why can't Nokia strike back and regain what market share they lost? Not that everyone gaining market share should continue doing it no matter what.
Apple lost one point the last quarter contrary to all expectatoins. And many are saying now that maybe Apple reached their high in the second quarter..



Ah yeah he definitely did. It was a broken nail though!

He's repeating what he'S getting through the media.. That's all.
One needs to think through you know.
He claimed that Nokia are replacing Symbian with Meego while they themselves denied that and declared full commitment to Symbian. The very topic this thread is about.
He is so much fed to an extent that he would believe a rumor made up by some reporter at Engadget than believing an official announcement by Nokia.

Well, excuse me, but I think this is just unacceptable. For his sake more than any actually!
Going "offensive" is only meant to wake him up. And others as well..



You see, no matter what arguments one comes up with, this is the only thing you have to say.
Even teh best market analysts out there are in confusion predicting through the revolution we're witnessing and yet you are that certain..
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Posted: 2010-11-16 03:49:44
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Here are the facts:

Meego is technologically more advanced OS than Symbian.
Nokia is continuing development of Meego.
If Nokia was truly 'fully committing' to Symbian, and wanted that OS be their choice for the future, then they would stop development of Meego.
Nokia has committed to both both OSes.


They are continuing support for Symbian so that they can use it in their lower end devices but in the medium to long run, they will need a more advanced operating system to use in their high end devices. Meego is currently that OS. You can already see evidence in this strategy with the N900.

I fail to see how these facts could be interpreted in any other way. This discussion is becoming pointless.
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Posted: 2010-11-16 07:32:41
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