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hmm so you are saying that if a Osama wanabe wants to do some terror all he need to do is to have 10 of his friend on the plane sending sms to themself! And tata you got yourself a 11 september 2?
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Posted: 2002-07-28 01:49:00
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Depending on a lot of circumstances, type of cell phone, your seating, type of aircraft, type of electronics used in the aircraft...
But, yes, it COULD happen.
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Posted: 2002-07-28 01:54:00
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Okay well maybe i shoud tips 60 minnutes abouth this!
nice topic: Talibans new weapon GSM PHONES!
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Posted: 2002-07-28 02:01:00
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so what are you all going to do now....?
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Posted: 2002-07-28 04:05:00
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im going to be a nice person and have my phone off!
When im on a plane
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Posted: 2002-07-28 04:29:00
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Sorry, this got long...
We all know that Mobiles (especially the Time Division radio type, ie. GSM) creates lots of interference in radio, tv, normal phones and of course PC-screens (CRTs not LCDs).
When flying small planes at least, the interference on the radio from a GSM phone is very annoying.
That said, the phones work well at least a few km. above ground. Even though the ground antennas ARE directionall, they still emit enough upwards (its very hard to make antennas very directional).
Usually GSM phones are said to stop working at about 250km/h (~160mph). This is simply because the GSM network is not designed to hand over the phone fast enough to the next cell.
This would be even slower in urban areas, where higher number of mobiles mean the operators make smaller cells (the number of cell phones which can be serviced at a time is per cell - more cells means more phones).
This would be the reason why someone experienced the cell phones working just before takeof and landing. The initial climb speed of large airplanes are in the 160mph ballpark, as are the approach speed.
This is probably also why forgotten phones in overhead lockers start beeping just around landing time. They simply just cought on to the network, and SMS's which has been hold up during flight, arrives (If it really rings, coincidence will have to account for some of it
Whether a GSM phone can seriously affect the navigational equipment (assuming you dont put it next to the compass master), is probably an open question - but as has been said before - why risk it?
Clearly it "shouldn't", but that is not the same as "can't possibly"!
GSM phones are very trouble-some noise emitters, and they have exemptions (spell?) from the normal EMC requirements which are used for all electronic equipment. I a electronics designer, and it is VERY VERY hard to design equipment that is TRULY immune to GSM-phones noise. Even if you completely shield the component, just a small gap will let in quite a lot of radio energy.
Add to this that often airliners are quite old. GSM phones didn't become widespread until about 7 years ago, so maybe the planes electronics predates them (and as GSM phones has exemptions from the normal noise emittion requirements, you can hardly expect older equipment to have foreseen that kind of noise).
The age of airliners are seldom a safety concern, as every mechanical part is constantly inspected, testet, and replaced on schedule (as Fingers can surely confirm), but I'm not sure this goes for the electronics, as long as it passes validation tests, I think some of it can be quite old.
Anyway, the upshot is simple. Why do it?
And for the extremely egoistic, who doesn't understand that argument: It surely won't work at cruise speeds anyway!
On the ground is slightly different. But as the pilots are already testing equipment, and talking with the ground controllers before engine start-up, you could argue that they should be off here too. It's just not a safety argument here. But imagine that they get a failure on one of the instrument power-up tests - they might decide to send the plane of to service, and you'd have to catch the next. Damn expensive for them - and a huge bother for you. Now thats an argument for everyone.
Either way - the stewerdess could still be polite when telling you so!
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Posted: 2002-07-28 14:03:00
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Quote:
On 2002-07-28 01:45, Froddan wrote:
Which part of this, is it that you don't understand?
DO NOT USE YOUR CELL PHONE IN AN AIRCRAFT !!!!!
I'm in this line of job too, I don't pretend to know all about the topic, but I know for a fact that it can cause failure in the electronics of the aircraft.
Froddan,
have you read the posts?
British Airways policy is that mobile phones can be used on board planes before engines are turned on.
this means when boarding a plane you are fine to use your phone up until you've sat down and been advised to switch it off...which doesn't happen until the captain is about to turn on the engines.
Germany however(and as cycoman ponted out Turkey also) prohibits all German airlines from having mobile
equipment on at any time while aboard the aircraft.
this means you have to switch off your phone before you board the plane.
this rule does not affect non German airlines when in Germany but it does confuse matters when it's not clearly stated what rule is in effect.
peole say, why do you need your phone on when your boarding a plane?
you dont, same as you dont need it on when your on the tube, train or bus...but when the rules state it can be on then it will be and if you travel on British Airways regularly like i did then obviously you leave your phone on til your required to switch it off.
if you dont understand what i'm saying let me know as your comment shows you havent read all the posts on this subject.
no one disputed they should have phones on during flights, the dispute is in how the rules ARE different for different countries but are not clearly stated as such.
its a little late advertising use of mobiles in the booklet in the seat n front of you, your already on the plane.
for more info:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question230.htm
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Posted: 2002-07-28 14:57:00
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Decoy7
I agree, the laws and rules concerning this should be clearly stated, and world wide. One and same for all.
I've read all posts here, what I meant was, I don't know what (phones, laptops, cd players) it is that effects the electronics in an aircraft, and why it effects them.
But I do know that it has a negative effect on the electronics in an aircraft.
Just to be on the safe side, why not turn off the phone before boarding, no matter whether it's BA or Lufthansa.
A little like on a construction area, with blasting operations in progress, it's better to be safe than sorry.
And you can't compare a train to an aircraft. The technology and electronics used in an aircraft is far more advanced, and therefor also more vurnelable to "disturbing sources".
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Posted: 2002-07-28 17:29:00
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I'm not even going to repeat everything I've written previously in this post except that it is international law that you are not allowed to have your cell phone on during what they call the flight phase, which means as soon as the engines are started, it's up to the airline if they allow you to have your phone on before and after that. Everybody knows you're not allowed to have you phone on in an aircraft, so why even bother. It does cause interference with a lot of the aircraft systems, not just communication and navigation systems.
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Posted: 2002-07-28 18:45:00
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Fingers
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Now, lets leave it to this.
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Posted: 2002-07-28 18:53:00
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