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Hi Patrick, welcome!
I'm intrugued to know why you support Bush, as every time me (and most people in countries around the world!) want to punch the TV every time that guy appears on it.
Not wanting to threadjack this thread, I suggest we continue to debate in the 'George W Bush's CV' thread - I don't think @axxxr will be pleased to have us debating in this bluetooth against bush thread!
I warn you though - I have a tendency to type before thinking sometimes, and don't have to time to be quite as well-researched as some do on this subject, but I will give it my best shot to change your mind!
So, bring it on!
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Posted: 2004-07-23 08:39:10
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Sammy its no prob mate you can continue with your debate here or in the bush c.v thread..both threads are bush related so it don't make a difference...Cheers!!
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Another so called land of the free story
Couple Arrested After Wearing Anti-Bush T-Shirts
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- The Charleston City Council has apologized to two protesters jailed for wearing anti-Bush T-shirts to the president's July Fourth rally.
Nicole and Jeff Rank -- of Corpus Christi, Texas -- were removed from the event in restraints.
They were arrested after revealing T-shirts with President Bush's name crossed out on the front and the words "Love America, Hate Bush" on the back.Trespassing charges were dismissed last week.
Monday, the Charleston City Council adopted a resolution to apologize.
The resolution said the two did nothing more than "peaceably exercise their right of free speech."Trespassing charges were dropped after a judge determined that city ordinances do not apply to Statehouse grounds.
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Posted: 2004-07-23 11:46:16
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On 2004-07-23 08:39:10, Sammy_boy wrote:
Hi Patrick, welcome!
I'm intrugued to know why you support Bush, as every time me (and most people in countries around the world!) want to punch the TV every time that guy appears on it.
Hello Sammy! I deal with things best one at a time so forgive me as I break each item down into digestible parts.
First off I'd like to ask why you want to punch the TV? Don't you think that's a bit of irrational behavior? If not - I'm curious to know why. Also - are you sure that "most people in countries around the world" react the same way you do? If so, how did you learn that fact?
Why do I support Bush? Even as a Republican, I have to admit, it isn't as much support for Bush as it is my support of free-market capitalism and dislike of socialism. As mentioned earlier - I have
Libertarian tendencies.
Reasons I'm happy with Bush:
He is a Republican
He is in favor of reduced taxes
He may not be liked, but if he says he will do something, people believe him
Reasons I'm unhappy with Bush:
He presides over the largest US Federal deficit and doesn't show signs of curbing spending
He has voiced support for amending the US Constitution in order to win a cultural issue
He hasn't, in my opinion, effectively communicated the consequences of loosing the "War on Terror"
Please note - these lists are not intended to be exhaustive in any way
Quote:I warn you though - I have a tendency to type before thinking sometimes, and don't have to time to be quite as well-researched as some do on this subject, but I will give it my best shot to change your mind!
So, bring it on!
When people of deep religious convictions approach me and attempt to convert me to their faith - I do not resent them. I just look at it from this perspective: If they truly believe what they say they believe then it is perfectly natural and reasonable that they should be out trying to spread the "truth". To do less (not try to tell others) would be a bit selfish, don't you think? So that is why I engage people in conversation. We are all here proselytizing our view. However, Sammy, I will promise you one thing. Unlike the many who seem to only shout their mantra and refuse to even listen to, much less consider, a differing opinion -- I will take your opinion and either disagree (with reasons), agree (with reasons), or tell you I need to learn more about it. I believe we both will grow and learn from this exchange.
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Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-23 15:19 ]
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:16:04
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On 2004-07-23 11:46:16, axxxr wrote:
Another so called land of the free story
Couple Arrested After Wearing Anti-Bush T-Shirts
Appalling - Unforgivable - Disgusting
I'm glad the people in charge made things right and everything turned out well in the end.
By the way: As a US citizen - I still believe I live in the land of the free. Exactly how does this story show otherwise Axxxr? And what does it have to do with Bush specifically?
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Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-23 15:25 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-23 15:26 ]
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:23:13
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@Patrick Do you not spot a connection with the cutting taxes and a large deficit?
And what are your views on Americas continued support for Israel despite them continually ignoring the UN?
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:27:20
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On 2004-07-23 08:27:14, axxxr wrote:
Actually - This is the subject that lead me to this thread and forum. I heard about this and wanted to learn more. Isn't it great? I think this is a wonderful idea. People using technology to express their political opinions and find other like minded people. Ingenious. I love the United States. Besides most European countries - where else is there so open a dialog about contentious political issues allowed without the routine outbreak of bloodshed and government oppression?
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:31:34
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Does anyone here remember the story of a small nation called vietnam. Where some of its citizens tried to have a debate about contentious issues such as whether or not to be communists. Strange how when the government tried to oppress them another country joined in.
No prizes for guessing which!
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:51:17
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On 2004-07-23 16:27:20, Liam wrote:
@Patrick Do you not spot a connection with the cutting taxes and a large deficit?
And what are your views on Americas continued support for Israel despite them continually ignoring the UN?
Excellent questions Liam.
Fist I can see a correlation between cutting taxes and a large deficit - however when faced with a large deficit there are several ways to respond. I happen to favor the lower taxes and lower spending approach. I feel the lower taxes help to spur the economy (private and business sectors). I feel reduced spending helps to invigorate the private economic sector that doesn't have to deal with as much governmental interference and/or competition as well as limits what government can do (like wage war on little countries all over the world).
About Israel and the U.N. ... this one is much more complicated than simple economic principles. Diplomacy isn't my strong point - however I feel that the opinion of the world community is important but not the end-all-be-all to how countries should or can act. I'm not denying that Israel has enraged the UN and defied many UN resolutions in the past. I doubt it will follow all future UN guidance. The fact is, when you have the Big Gorilla (read USA) as your friend - you can get away with not having to play ball by your
enemies rules. And I have to point out that some of the resolutions that have been passed by the UN regarding Israel are seriously lopsided. I happen to be of the opinion that the UN isn't the repository of all truth and purity. (I'm not sure what governing body is) ... That said, it is my opinion that nations should and will continue to operate in their best interests - regardless of the UN. There is plenty of room for clarification and further discussion on this issue. I'd be happy to learn more - be exposed to more information - and debate more.
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:51:43
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On 2004-07-23 16:51:17, Liam wrote:
Does anyone here remember the story of a small nation called vietnam. Where some of its citizens tried to have a debate about contentious issues such as whether or not to be communists. Strange how when the government tried to oppress them another country joined in.
No prizes for guessing which!
Oooo Oooo ... I know....
FRANCE
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Posted: 2004-07-23 16:55:21
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Surely it would be in a countries best interest to go round the world kidnapping people and then using them as slave labour, after all that way goods would be a lot cheaper. Maybe they should go round invading resurce rich areas. Or maybe they should continually ignore enviromental issues or agreements (Kyoto - anyone?).
We all now that this is not how countries should act in the world. There are instances where action should not be taken in your own best interests but as a review of the whole. That way attrocities could be avoided.
I'm not trying to blame the US for everything, don't get me wrong i'm disgusted at the current state of affairs in the International Whaleing Convention (or whatever you call it). The main problem I have with the US is its lack of consistency. Where was the US in Rwanda or why arent they sending troops to the Darfur region of Sudan?
I believe if a country is going to interfer in the governance of others then it should do all the time or none of the time. Not just when it is in its own best interests.
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Posted: 2004-07-23 17:02:13
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