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> so who is religous here?
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Posted: 2004-04-19 10:43:00
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yes and no... yes in a SE way. no in a 'i must do what this book tells me etc etc'....
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Posted: 2004-04-19 11:00:08
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@gelfen.i'm sorry but what u said about d seven day theory could be or meant to be is a load of crap.u can't just translate it like that,its totally baseless.believing in a creator that created everything is one thing,believing in a religious story about it is another.this is what i think of religion-it has either been created by a very clever person or a stupid god.
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Posted: 2004-04-27 02:30:37
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i never claimed to believe in a "religious story". if you actually read my post you would see that said:
something had to make it all happen "in the beggining". the what, how and why are yet to be answered definitively.
you have completely missed the point.
IT'S A BLOODY METAPHOR!!!
i wasn't trying to justify religion or God, merely that some creation myths aren't as far off-base as people try to make out. that means either the person who wrote them made a
very lucky guess, or he knew what he was on about and was trying to simplify things (a lot) for a population too primitive to grasp the complex details: "I can't explain this in terms you would understand so let's just call it the mystic power of God for the time being, until you get a lot smarter."
you might think it's baseless, but i don't believe in coincidences.
"this is what i think of religion-it has either been created by a very clever person or a stupid god."
if you mean religion was created by smart person or stupid god, then i have two points. firstly, it doesn't require a smart person to found a religion (David Koresh, step forward please). secondly, if it's a stupid god then religion has instant credibility - being the worship of said god after all.
however, if you meant the world/galaxy/universe then i'm not arguing (except perhaps about the stupid part) because whatever "creator" put all this together needed to have a very profound understanding of the way things work. if you want to argue over the imperfections found in the world, an awful lot of them can be traced back to the "imperfection of man". many religions offer up some devil-type figure as the cause of all the world's evils, but again i consider that a metaphor for basic human stupidity coupled with the randomness of nature (and a tendency for us to blame anyone but ourselves).
i choose to believe that life has a purpose, which is not the same as saying that every individual has a purpose (although i'm open to argument on that too). part of the purpose of life may be to overcome our innate imperfecion and the random curve-balls thrown by mother nature. or it may be we've loused up our purpose so much that we are susceptible to these problems. either way, it makes no difference to the fact that something caused everything to come into being.
_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-27 02:17 ]
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Posted: 2004-04-27 03:16:50
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lol well i aint religious at all....i suppose there could be something out there but i dont know what..........ALIENS mayb lol
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Posted: 2004-04-27 09:42:18
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@gelfen
Whilst I hate to disagree with you my friend I must in this regard; it is not necessarily a perquisite for something to have 'started' the universe or 'created' it in any way. It has been postulated that our universe may in fact be forever in a cycle of expansion and contraction; the Big bang may have happened countless times before and may happen countless times again, in theory nothing has had to start this chain of events.
It is also theorised that our universe is only one of many universes (not parallel universes) existing within a larger construct, which would then lead one into an almost existentialist point of view. At a basic level, our universe might not have been created by any higher intelligence, simply by act of nature. Of course one could then ask what created the larger 'membrane' in which our universe (and all the others) exists, which would be a very valid question. The creation of such a construct is beyond our ability to answer, even theoretically, with any certainty, since outside of our universe, the laws of physics may not necessarily be the same, or exist at all.
Physics is a human invention, a set of rules used to explain the way nature works in terms that our minds can understand. If we are speaking about something, which is outside of the laws of physics then we cannot expect physics, at least as we currently understand it, to be able to explain that something. To explain that, which is currently beyond science we must turn to religion and belief, we have no more accurate information than belief when it comes to dealing with such ideas, even if that belief is in a theory instead of a God. We haven't really advanced very far in relative terms since this is exactly what we have been doing ever since we started to wonder about the world around us.
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Posted: 2004-06-17 22:30:42
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I'm not, after 5 years studiyng science I can't imagine that a "god" can exists. What you might also think about 'how the universe started?' is: who did god if he made the universe, he must then come from somewhere ... he can't have appeared like that.
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Posted: 2004-06-17 23:41:14
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@Jim
That is precisely the point I was raising in my last post, current scientific understanding assumes that all things have a beginning (though not necessarily an end), and this would then infer that God has a beginning. However, I think you are missing one of the points that I made, we cannot measure that which is beyond our understanding of science with the scientific theories we currently have available.
If there is such a thing as God (whatever God is) then we are assuming that it is beyond our universe and therefore beyond our scientific understanding. I am using the term 'God' here to mean whatever can be thought of as having 'created' our universe. The current laws of physic sonly really allow us to say what has happened, what is happening and what will happen inside our universe; they do not apply to anything outside our universe since we cannot measure outside our universe.
I am not a religious person, but I would have to say that at some point the 'God Factor' comes into play, that is, there comes a point at which we cannot rely on science for answers anymore, instead we must trust in faith, whether that faith is in a God or in a scientific theory. As our scientific understanding progresses we might be able to learn more about the origins of the universe and what may lie beyond it, but I would imagine that this would be long after we are all gone.
Religion is a continuation of science; faith is all we have when science can no longer provide us with facts.
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Posted: 2004-06-17 23:50:49
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the
How many of you are Christians? thread prompted me to come looking for this. damn i wish i had been able to get back to this thread at the time...
@scots: from what you have written it seems that you don't disagree with me, but that we area both on the same page. my point was that something caused the universe to exist - be it energy, matter, trans-dimensional physics, God, or even small furry creatures from alpha centauri.
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Posted: 2005-04-20 09:42:52
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so who is religous here?
I am definately religious.
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Posted: 2005-04-20 13:14:22
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