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I'm sorry but what you wrote is just pure gibberish.
the S800 is an between the A9 and A15 its not even an A15, so like i said its a half gen behind.
Qualcomm make his own custom cores whereas A15 is designed by ARM, so how can the S800 be an A15? It's like saying an Radeon R9-290X is not even a GeForce 780. And how can it be half a gen behind when it is as powerful but uses much, much less energy? Why are Tegra 4, based on A15, used in much less devices than S800 and S600?
Q has nothing but market share holding them up.. if it wasnt for the perception from the first 1ghz soc, theyd be as popular as nvidia..
If you have seen how Tegra market share been divided by 4 this year, you wouldn't have said that... Perception and marketshare doesn't last and doesn't explain success.
plus their node is several generations behind 28nm.
They have been the very first with 28nm on mobile, ever since the S4 which was in Sony Xperia T.
i dont expect them to have a 14nm node ready the way samsung is skipping a whole node to catch up to apples ideas..
You do know that Samsung manufactures Apple's SoC's, right? How can they be catching up to Apple with a process node? They are catching up with Intel. Besides, going to smaller nodes is hardly an idea, it's a vague as saying let's make better chips.
they have also been on record denouncing 64bit (the man making those statements has since been reassigned)
The fact that he's been resigned prove that he was the only one at Qualcomm thinking that.
their GPU choice is also a step behind. in terms of CPUs the s800 is widespread but archaic in terms of currently available tech exynos5 (5420 specifically).
They're on par with Apple and better than everyone else. Exynos 5 only compares with S600, but is way behind S800.
[ This Message was edited by: karim128 on 2013-11-10 22:54 ]
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Posted: 2013-11-10 23:52:27
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How about if we get back to rumours of Xperia phone's.
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Posted: 2013-11-11 00:01:07
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Possible new Xperia for 2014 or just an old Z1 frame?
http://sonyviet.vn/2013/11/lo[....]ria-hoan-toan-moi-xperia-2014/
Translation:
http://translate.google.com/t[....]oan-moi-xperia-2014%2F&act=url
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Posted: 2013-11-11 02:00:33
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^
I'm guessing might be the rumored Z1s which the smaller version of Z1 (although it seems quite large), or might be a Z1 refresh
because it looks very similar indeed.
I think the 2014 flagship might be a different design, just like Sony making design changes every year. Hoping any insiders here please shed some light, no more leakage policy seems to be in deep effect
[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2013-11-11 01:16 ]
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Posted: 2013-11-11 02:14:46
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Hmm, interesting that they're gonig for a smaller overall appearance on the speakers on the bottom of that unit. Plus what's that on the top of the unit along with the headphone hole? Possible IR blaster?
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Posted: 2013-11-11 05:24:31
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On 2013-11-10 23:52:27, karim128 wrote:
I'm sorry but what you wrote is just pure gibberish.
the S800 is an between the A9 and A15 its not even an A15, so like i said its a half gen behind.
Qualcomm make his own custom cores whereas A15 is designed by ARM, so how can the S800 be an A15? It's like saying an Radeon R9-290X is not even a GeForce 780. And how can it be half a gen behind when it is as powerful but uses much, much less energy? Why are Tegra 4, based on A15, used in much less devices than S800 and S600?
Q has nothing but market share holding them up.. if it wasnt for the perception from the first 1ghz soc, theyd be as popular as nvidia..
If you have seen how Tegra market share been divided by 4 this year, you wouldn't have said that... Perception and marketshare doesn't last and doesn't explain success.
plus their node is several generations behind 28nm.
They have been the very first with 28nm on mobile, ever since the S4 which was in Sony Xperia T.
i dont expect them to have a 14nm node ready the way samsung is skipping a whole node to catch up to apples ideas..
You do know that Samsung manufactures Apple's SoC's, right? How can they be catching up to Apple with a process node? They are catching up with Intel. Besides, going to smaller nodes is hardly an idea, it's a vague as saying let's make better chips.
they have also been on record denouncing 64bit (the man making those statements has since been reassigned)
The fact that he's been resigned prove that he was the only one at Qualcomm thinking that.
their GPU choice is also a step behind. in terms of CPUs the s800 is widespread but archaic in terms of currently available tech exynos5 (5420 specifically).
They're on par with Apple and better than everyone else. Exynos 5 only compares with S600, but is way behind S800.
[ This Message was edited by: karim128 on 2013-11-10 22:54 ]
I appreciate your response.
Qualcomm designed their own chips based around the ARMv7 architecture. The Krait CPU from Q is based on an EARLY version of the A15 before it was finalized. It is a 28nm processor.
ARM gets some of their designs from IBM (proxy war with intel)
TI - OMAP = ARM
NVIDIA - Tegra = ARM
Samsung - Exynos = ARM
MediaTek = ARM
Qualcomm - Snapdragon = ARM
These companies license the architecture and design their own individual SoC AROUND their custom ARM CPUs. Who fabricates these is usually TSMC/Samsung they are the largest foundries right now. Intel as we've read has also started to fabricate ARM processors for industrial routers. Intel fabrication is at 14nm (2 fabrication nodes below the S800 @ 28nm, 20nm being the middle step between the two).
Your analogy between ATI and NVIDIA for graphics cards is inapplicable here for this discussion as its irrelevant to the points that were being made. false dichotomy.
Power management is up to the individual firm, my analogy would be that not all chocolate ice cream tastes the same, they are all chocolate but the final product can vary from manufacturer.
Your complaint about the market share is also down to numerous factors but mindshare is a hard thing to break. An example of mindshare would be 'Retina Display' which is not related to any technical metric, however its often associated with the minimum pixel density where the pixels can no longer be seen. People are stuck behind this artificial wall because of perception, it doesnt however make it the best display. Just the ones that people want because of mindshare. Likewise for SoCs... the S800 is in the Snapdragon family, and because they the 'Snapdragon' broke the GHz barrier for smartphones they continue to own mindshares, it isnt to say its a bad SoC its just an old design people dont seem to grasp this. There was a time not too long ago you could only find OMAP chips in smart devices, to the point where TI owned the market in a similar way, where are OMAP chips today?
Qualcomm was not the first to 28nm for the mobile market, thats just blatantly false. TI had OMAP at 28nm in 2010. Qualcomm had test chips out in mid 2011 I believe..
Intel is the first to 14nm, TSMC is at 20nm and may struggle to keep up, the reports say that there are some yield issues, which they will overcome. Samsung is rumored to have skipped the 20nm process in favor for the FinFet 14nm process.
I dont believe that i said that Samsung was going to keep up with apples NODE, but their 64bit gambit in smartpohones, sorry if I was confusing there, i dont really edit these posts (it was late)
Going to another node, "is not an idea" im confused by your rebuttal.. its a billion dollar decision, and in order to succesfully produce tens of millions of cpus it takes a lot of brilliant people.. It is a competitive decision, but technology needs to move forward, i dont see a reason to oppose it.
Chandrasekher has not resigned, unless my news is old, he was reassigned. Still reports to the same ppl.
Like you said, the Samsung family of SoCs are on par with apple because they make them for apple. Your assumption about the whole Exynos 5 family is misplaced. the 5420 is a monstrous CPU that technically performance wise (it would burn you like the sun) is an order higher than the S800. Remember that the S800 Krait Cores are based pre-A15 architecture (ARM had not finalized the designing, Q pushed forward). The 5420 is four A15 and four A7's (updated version of the A8), because Samsungs manufacturing process matured over 2013 they corrected the issues from the 5410, and allowed for CCI/HMP. Simply put it sits atop the S800 but remains shackled and there are several limiting factors, namely the software and Samsungs unwillingness to release kernel information regarding the processor itself. Power management from Q however is second to none, that is ALL them too, as no one else in the industry has achieved the battery life or the charging speed of the S800.
Sorry for the book. Either way next year we will see WQHD screens (2560x1400) and A57/53 based SoC, my point was Q has not released their plan yet (they have them since they were SWIFT to reassign Chandrasekher, but even at the time in his post he wasnt aware of what they were so theres that... ) and they released their roadmap at the end of 2012 (well 2H12) S4/S4Pro/S600/S800.. we havent gotten an updated roadmap, and it appears the people who should know whats coming down the line dont. Sony are more than likely to hit the WQHD (JDI is their subsidiary partnership between sony toshiba and hitachi) but who knows when.. most likely again 2H14 but surprises are nice. Samsung is going full steam ahead they will try to get their new Exynos out for the S5, we will see how that goes because theres a lot there.. But from Samsungs roadmap we see that at least for displays they want to get UHD in devices by 2015.. 14 should be an interesting year like i said.. If Samsung can get their new SoC out, they are very self-concious about their devices and strive for parity regardless of the SoC, if Q doesnt havent a comparable SoC, I HIGHLY doubt they can supply the market in volume with their new SoC. We may see more S800 devices next year.. still it comes down to Google, and Android wrt to Sony/Samsung and these SoC. 3.4 is ancient, and doesnt natively support HMP 3.10 does so i dont know when we will see the update, but once that switch happens the performance gains from bigLittle will be more rewarding.
The future is bright!
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Posted: 2013-11-11 07:45:19
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z1+ ?
http://www.ctechcn.com/%E7%B4%A2%E5%B0%BC-new-phone-z1-leak/[ This Message was edited by: mobisekim on 2013-11-11 08:22 ]
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Posted: 2013-11-11 09:16:27
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On 2013-11-11 05:24:31, vivftp wrote:
Hmm, interesting that they're gonig for a smaller overall appearance on the speakers on the bottom of that unit. Plus what's that on the top of the unit along with the headphone hole? Possible IR blaster?
A mic for noise cancelation.
The device looks too slim to be Z1f I guess it is some version of Z1.
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Posted: 2013-11-11 09:40:03
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@ mobisekim
I wish this is the International version of Xperia Z1F ..
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@ my ninja
it is meaningless to have BigLittle HMP or ARM 64bit , since Android kernel don't support them yet
if Samsung would include SoC based on A57/53 in GS5 , it would be just like what Apple has been doing with A7 a 64bit SoC with 1GB of RAM !
unless if they adopt Kernel above ( 4.7 ) , but that unlikely to happen !!
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[ This Message was edited by: XperiaCute on 2013-11-11 09:56 ]
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Posted: 2013-11-11 10:55:03
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On 2013-11-10 10:11:10, my ninja wrote:
Qualcomm has NOTHING ready (64bit wise) for 1H14 sorry. the S800 is an between the A9 and A15 its not even an A15, so like i said its a half gen behind. let alone A57/53 that samsung is jumping to (more precisely ARMv8 instruction set) and Q has nothing but market share holding them up.. which in tech is not enough.. plus their node is several generations behind 28nm. in terms of CPUs the s800 is widespread but archaic in terms of currently available tech exynos5 (5420 specifically). they have also been on record denouncing 64bit (the man making those statements has since been reassigned) however the way they announced their chipsets at the end of 12, they havent for 14 in the same way. i dont expect them to have a 14nm node ready the way samsung is skipping a whole node to catch up to apples ideas.. exynos has always been ahead of snapdragon, same with omap(rip).. if it wasnt for the perception from the first 1ghz soc, theyd be as popular as nvidia.. as for scale they have everyone beat and can supply the entire market which is impressive, but that can change quickly, their true anchor is their radio integration less the performance. their GPU choice is also a step behind.
android needs more ram than iOS because of the middle layer of the ecosystem (java/davlik runtime) it creates a HUGE performance hit, where if google JUST used their own release of linux that would alleviate a lot of the 'lag' and short comings of android.
4.4 introduced ART to replace Davlik, so that should be impressive as its the first implementation so in a few iterations it should become the default and have substantial gains, right now they are about the same.. but they still need to get out of the java business and just run a branch of linux, if they did that, android would explode performance wise.. but as of now, android is beholden to its roots.. Id love to see Android 6 like its own version of ubuntu, redhat, or centos.. something without that nagging layer hogging resources.
android needs to update from kernel 3.4.. ffs upstream is at 3.10.. its time.
[ This Message was edited by: my ninja on 2013-11-10 09:19 ]
I didn't say that Q has anything, I said I didn't hear anything 64bit'sh for 1H14, and as you said, it's only a better yields of current products + newer & faster GPU... I know that... but what I said also that I know nothing of any 2H14 plans for Q... so maybe they have something for 2H14 or maybe nothing and we will have to wait till 2015 for anything 64bit...
I know that Qualcomm have their own design of ARM compatible architecture, as you said, based on ARMv7... it's just custom... deeper than what Apple is doing with their A6+A7 SoC... which are based on ARM9/ARM57 designs with some Apple modifications and customisations to increase the ARM9 performance ( as they didn't go to ARM15 )...
While Krait is a not as powerful as A15, it came much earlier than A15, the performance is not that much different between the two, Qualcomm get it in the right time as A15 designs took longer time to mature specially that pure A15 designs are power hungry that's why ARM went for the LITTLE.big idea which combines A15 + A7 cores and switch between them depending on the work load, Krait doesn't need such logic as it has superior power management and can handle different workload... Samsung went for LITTLE.big route but it failed in the first attempt ( that octa in S4 ) as it can't run all the cores in the same time ( so it's not a real octa ) and the driver is faulty to choose the cores depending on the workload, they have a lot of improvements with newer firmwares but still faulty... thats why they designed another SoC which is real octa ( can use all cores in the same time ) and the driver is better triggering the right cores depending on the workload... Tegra4 is nothing also ( much lower design wins ) and it also have that fifth combined core which turns on to save power ( as the other four cores are power hungry A15 )...
Krait now running the mastered the design stage ( reducing leak, optimising the process ), that's why they're going higher with the clock while maintaining the target TDP... A15 is still far from being at this stage ( needs more time )...
so Krait is lower in performance than A15 not because A15 is only superior, but because it came earlier so the target performance + power is lower...
Samsung Exynos is nothing special, is just pure A15+A7 design based on big.LITTLE design... there's no customization, and when Samsung made the first SoC it's wasn't complete actually that's why the first SoC was a crap and the crappiest thing they do is that they used it in an actual flagship product ( S4 i9500 )... they was just rushing everything to say ( We have the first Octa core SoC and product )... and it wasn't octa at all !!
That Chinese newcomer MediaTek made the first real Octacore, yes it was based on A9, and older arch. but it was really Octa, real 8 cores running in the same time !! I know performance might not be that much but at least they're not lying and rushing they made it for cheap phones that's why it's not complicated and uses cheaper and older design ( ARM A9 )
Qualcomm is already working on 64bit SoC, but not Krait at all... it's a new arch but we just don't know when it will be ready, 2H14 or 2015... we just don't know... what we know that it's sure not in 1H14...
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Posted: 2013-11-11 11:36:32
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