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On 2005-07-18 02:16:20, amnesia wrote:
all that I have to say is that article is bullshit.
Islam is about peace, in my classes they have NEVER taught us to kill non muslims. IN FACT, during the old religious wars, Christians used to kill those who did not convert after invading a territory. However Muslims said convert and stay, or stay and pay tax.
No killing whatsoever.
Also, do you think an Imam would denounce his faith after being an Imam so easily? My point is, these are supposed to be enlightened individuals who spreak the word of God through Islam. So why would 'so many' run away?
It's not true thats all I can say.
no offence to any religion but @amnesia you say that christians used to kill those who did not convert, muslims also did this to many sikhs and hindus in 1699. i thought the quran was about peace and harmony?
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Posted: 2005-07-18 02:27:28
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i think it's fair to say that a number of mainstream religions have their fair share of skeletons in the cupboard. dragging up all the past misdemeanours of one side or the other never does any good in solving problems.
i will say however that it's probably not a fair call to label US/UK/coalition forces as Christian extremists, if only because there is a legally enforceable and rigidly maintained separation of powers between religion and state in western societies. additionally, most of the soldiers are probably more athiest than anything else and they are not acting "in the name of christianity", whereas a number of terrorist groups seem to align themselves with islam (for whatever reason) and try to pervert it for their own self-justification.
there was a one-off episode of The West Wing called Isaac and Ishmael which offered the analogy that "Islamic extremist is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity", and I think people would do well to remember that rationale. more effort needs to go into understanding how and why such groups corrupt their faith so that it becomes almost unrecognisable from the orthodox teachings.
@Peter: could you please answer these questions i asked earlier? thanks
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On 2005-07-16 02:03:59, gelfen wrote:
1. Why are there words in brackets in your quotes? does it signify imprecise translation or something else?
2. if all the previous holy books are part of god's teaching, then wouldn't it make more sense to embrace that message in it's totality rather than just the "last chapter" as it were? i am looking at it from the point of view where the old testament is still fundamental to christian faith even though it started out as purely judaic scripture.
also, where does the whole "reward with 40 virgins in the afterlife" bit come from, or is it just another bit made up to appease the gullible?
personally, i would have thought 40 virgins would be a lot of work
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Whomsoever you see in distress, recognize in him a fellow man
Gelfen's special place where people talk to him[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2005-07-18 04:47 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-18 05:38:07
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It's not like you're going to die again after all that work is it Gelfen
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Posted: 2005-07-18 05:46:24
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On 2005-07-16 02:03:59, gelfen wrote:
1. Why are there words in brackets in your quotes? does it signify imprecise translation or something else?
2. if all the previous holy books are part of god's teaching, then wouldn't it make more sense to embrace that message in it's totality rather than just the "last chapter" as it were? i am looking at it from the point of view where the old testament is still fundamental to christian faith even though it started out as purely judaic scripture.
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Hi Gelfen,
Answer to question 1: No it does not signify imprecise translation at all, it actually helps the transalation more if you read the text properly. As the Quran is revealed in arabic, this transalation is most accurate that i mention in my posts. The Word (God) i place myself as some people do not know who Allah is.
Answer to question 2: In all honesty, the Quran being the final revelation consists of all previous holy books and today the Quran is the only book in the world that is the same and has not changed. Wherever you go in the world the Holy Quran is exactly the same.
Chapter 13 Verses 1-3 State:
"A.L.M.R. These are the signs (or verses) of the Book: that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.
Allah (God) is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!"
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Posted: 2005-07-18 10:43:40
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On 2005-07-18 05:38:07, gelfen wrote:
... i will say however that it's probably not a fair call to label US/UK/coalition forces as Christian extremists, ...
The troops are merely pawns in someone else's war. I imagine many of them have no interest in the issues.
However, the extremist who planned and launched the war claim to be Christian and to be guided by Christian principles.
Bush and Blair like to give the impression that their quest for oil, and their pursuit of narrow national interest, has a Scripural basis.
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Posted: 2005-07-18 11:04:21
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Bush and Blair like to give the impression that their quest for oil, and their pursuit of narrow national interest, has a Scripural basis.
I agree!!
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Posted: 2005-07-18 11:12:50
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On 2005-07-18 00:01:07, scotsboyuk wrote:
@PeterKay
As I mentioned before, what about those Muslims who are killing other Muslims? You mentioned that in Islam 'we are all brothers'; why are they killing other Muslims? axxxr mentioned something about these people not seeing the Muslims they are killing as Muslims, how accurate would you say this is?
Truth is that a Muslim is a person who submits himself to Almighty God and follows the teachings of the Quran and follows the actions of the Holy Prophet (saw). Now these Muslims killing Muslims aren't following the religion or one half of the two aren't following the religion. You say Muslims killing Muslims but it is just like saying Islamic terrorists. It is Untrue because the religion of Muslims does not allow killing humans.
Another reason why the Day of Judgement is a Must, these so called terrorists who kill innocent humans and these political leaders who kill hundreds of innocent lives daily - these people need to answer to the lord for their actions.
As the second part of my signature states "Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed". Almighty God is the best Judge and he will be swift in reckoning.
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Posted: 2005-07-18 11:16:22
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@Peterkay, i think those muslims who are carrying out terrorist bombings in the name of islam need to meet you, you would have a lot to teach them about what islam really is about
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Posted: 2005-07-18 12:38:22
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@solidsingh, its not me doing the teachings, its the Holy Quran which i get my information from. These so called Muslims need to learn a lesson and need to know what the religion is truly about. A religion meaning Peace does not tolerate terrorism.
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"Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe"
"Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed"[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-07-18 11:44 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-18 12:44:10
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Its wierd how Islam is always being scrutinised even before 9/11...
Whats the reason?
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Posted: 2005-07-18 12:57:49
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