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I wouldn't choose a N95 over a camcorder. Certainly not one of those 'record straight to DVD' Sony Handycam jobs.
As others have said, I believe
have read thier market well and captured it's imagination.
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Posted: 2007-01-25 02:27:31
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Its hardly surprising really, its hard to beat 2 devices condensed into one
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Posted: 2007-01-25 02:31:10
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On 2007-01-24 10:35:31, goldenface wrote:
This is all well and good but
music phones have the higher profile and
sold more mp3 phones than iPods last quarter, so much so that most analysts now believe
is a threat to the iPod and vice-versa.
Multimedia, video capabilities, tv-out etc aren't mainstream yet and they won't be until someone comes up with a good way of marketing it.
Plus I don't know why you brought S60 into the discussion. Go up to the average person in the street and say to them "S60" and they won't have the foggiest what your talking about. Say
to them and more often than not they will!
This is true. Funny, I remember arguing with a mib a couple of years ago that S60 wasn't really in the hearts and minds of phone buyers, and his argument was that Nokia s60's were better phones because they are smartphones and that this would drive Nokia sales and keep them on top. Oh yes, I remember mib, I'm sure we discussed this!
We argued for pages about the relevance of smartphone to mobile phone sales!
Then shortly after SE brings out a walkman phone and steals the market.
Why did they steal the market? Because the opposition had their pants down? Precisely. Nokia failed to recognise the value of branding!! If they had only jumped into bed with Apple before the Walkman phone, they probably would be the ones with the "music phone" reputation.
The fact is, Nokia FAILED! No matter which way you look at it, they completely stuffed up.
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Posted: 2007-01-25 13:30:05
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@max_wedge
Quote:The fact is, Nokia FAILED! No matter which way you look at it, they completely stuffed up.
I agree with you that Nokia failed in capturing music segment. On the other hand SE totally stuffed up in high-end multimedia/smartphone. SE high-end is in tatters as the P990/w950 were total disasters.
So yeah, SE can dominate in "mp3 player" but to a lot of buyers (like myself
) "mp3 player" is yesterday's play. Now we talk about wifi, gps, multimedia, vga video recording and smartphone.
btw: Nokia market share were up 2% and 6 million Nseries were sold in last QUARTER. Did I hear SE sold 18mil walkman in ONE year....yeah real big deal.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-01-25 13:55 ]
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Posted: 2007-01-25 14:48:35
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Quote:
On 2007-01-25 14:48:35, mib1800 wrote:
@max_wedge
Quote:The fact is, Nokia FAILED! No matter which way you look at it, they completely stuffed up.
I agree with you that Nokia failed in capturing music segment. On the other hand SE totally stuffed up in high-end multimedia/smartphone. SE high-end is in tatters as the P990/w950 were total disasters.
So yeah, SE can dominate in "mp3 player" but to a lot of buyers (like myself
) "mp3 player" is yesterday's play. Now we talk about wifi, gps, multimedia, vga video recording and smartphone.
btw: Nokia market share were up 2% and 6 million Nseries were sold in last QUARTER. Did I hear SE sold 18mil walkman in ONE year....yeah real big deal.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-01-25 13:55 ]
I agree with you about the high end of SE - it is their week point. And while I feel W950 and P990 are excellent phones, it's a light offering, and also disappointing that there is no smartphone other than P990 with a camera. I'm not unhappy with the smartphones SE have released, I think they are great phones however they need more smartphones in the range to compete with the variety that Nokia offer.
And HOW LONG have we waited for a hard screen UIQ? It's coming apparently...but my we've waited a long time.
I think you are wrong about multimedia. SE have good phones, Nokia have good phones, neither offer one phone with everything. VGA video is only availabla in the N93, soon SE will have a cybershot or handycam branded phone that will offer similar.
Wifi is model specific. Some SE models have wifi, some Nokia models have wifi, so what? Neither have it as standard. Though I admit, like smartphones, Nokia have better choice.
The way I see it a couple of years ago SE where struggling to make marketshare because they had great "all in one" phones but only a limited variety. They had only one handset in each market segment. Now they have fixed the low and mid range. They have introduced bulk models in each segment, and this is as much to do with their success lately as the Walkman brand.
If they can do the same in the smartphone segment, they will start to actually impact on Nokia's smartphone marketshare (as opposed to just taking it from the other manufacturers). But they do need more variety of smartphones.
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Posted: 2007-01-26 01:56:25
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@max_wedge
Quote:VGA video is only availabla in the N93, soon SE will have a cybershot or handycam branded phone that will offer similar.
Handycam phone is not announced yet and by the time it reaches the market it is at least a year behind. Like I say before SE is way behind in hardware and software technology.
BTW: 6233/88 have vga recording but at lower frame rate. Even now, at the minimum all nseries has CIF mp4 quality. These videos are very watchable on TV. No video taken by any SE phones (except p990 and discontinued w900) can be viewed on a TV screen.
Quote:Wifi is model specific. Some SE models have wifi, some Nokia models have wifi, so what? Neither have it as standard.
The only SE wifi model is overly expensive P990. Nokia has at least 6 models in all price range now. A nokia's VP said in a recent interview that all future N-series will have wifi as standard. Also, nokia is moving towards on-phone 3.5mm jack and mini-usb port. I dont think SE will adopt this anytime soon as SE like to tied in their customers with proprietary connector/format.
Quote:They have introduced bulk models in each segment, and this is as much to do with their success lately as the Walkman brand.
I must commend SE for walkman success. They saw an opening amidst the fighting giants (nokia/moto/samsung) and jump in to grab the untapped music segment. But the coming year will no longer be a stroll in the park like before for SE as the other manufacturers go all out into music.
Let's see how SE walkman fare against Moto z6 or samsung thin music or Nokia's 6290/n76 music offering with its superior smartphone capability.
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Posted: 2007-01-26 03:20:28
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The wifi implementation by SE is pathetic to say the 'least'. The only SE device with wifi only manages the by now archaic 'b'-standard :( To talk about SE and WIFI is like talking about fighter-jets and Wright -brothers. The other thing is - S60. If anything will manage to topple Microsoft, S60 will. Also please remember the biggest camera seller is still Nokia - cybershot or not(unfortunately). Between nokia and se there are other camera companies too (canon is one of them) yes SE did extremly well in the second half of last year, but even a 100% increase on 1cent gives you the grand sum of 2cent :D. My biggest gripe with SE is how easely they have conceded defeat at the 'top' ! They take a year to bring out a 'flagship' model and they haven't amounced anything yet for first quarter 2008 ! I wonder how long their 'cybershot' gravy train marketing stunt will last ? On the other hand I hope they manage to keep their heads above 10% market share. Now I consider buying from them :D
This message was posted from a N70-1
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Posted: 2007-01-26 05:01:10
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Why are you nokia boys so preoccupied with market share when SE is very profitable? Compare the revenues to that of samsungs and you'll get a clear picture. Market share for SE is steadily rising and it will continue that way. Anyway, we always expect nokia fans to do their best to look down on SE. We'll surely speak end of next year when end of year results are released by all the manufacturers and see how things stand.
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Posted: 2007-01-26 08:44:00
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I see this discussion has gone down the road of 'which manufacturer has the highest high-end'.
It seems to me - according to the analyst figures - that Nokia's growth has come from it success in emerging markets - rather than the greatness of its N series smartphones.
Sony Ericsson last year did exactly what it set out to do, go for growth in the mid-range, so it moved into Nokia's territory and completely outgunned Nokia's mid-range with the K800i/K790i, K750i, W810 and W850i - so Sony Ericsson made better products.
Take the UK for example - Nokia was lucky to have 2 phones in the top ten best sellers for the final half of the year.
This year will see more Cyber-shot and more Walkman handsets being launched and Nokia's mid - range will have an even greater battle on its handset - so much so that it will probably be relegated to selling its mid-range handsets out of wheelbarrows on the street.
Or giving them away in boxes of Cheerios.
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Posted: 2007-01-26 10:13:15
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Quote:
On 2007-01-26 05:01:10, mario2004 wrote:
The wifi implementation by SE is pathetic to say the 'least'. The only SE device with wifi only manages the by now archaic 'b'-standard
To talk about SE and WIFI is like talking about fighter-jets and Wright -brothers. The other thing is - S60. If anything will manage to topple Microsoft, S60 will. Also please remember the biggest camera seller is still Nokia - cybershot or not(unfortunately). Between nokia and se there are other camera companies too (canon is one of them) yes SE did extremly well in the second half of last year, but even a 100% increase on 1cent gives you the grand sum of 2cent
. My biggest gripe with SE is how easely they have conceded defeat at the 'top' ! They take a year to bring out a 'flagship' model and they haven't amounced anything yet for first quarter 2008 ! I wonder how long their 'cybershot' gravy train marketing stunt will last ? On the other hand I hope they manage to keep their heads above 10% market share. Now I consider buying from them
This message was posted from a N70-1
Hey Mario nice to see yo mate! forget about s60, no one cares about smart phones. For 2 years we've been arguing with you and Mib about smartphones being the big feature that everyone wants and that will keep Nokia in the dominant position, but in those two years the market has consistantly demonstrated no interest in smart phones at all.
I agree with MIB (begrudgingly) about multimedia, though I believe SE will catch up, just as they will in the smartphone bracket. And the only edge Nokia have in multimedia imho, is in video quality. In all other respects SE offer nicer, better quality and better spec'd phones. (leave s60 out of it, no one really cares about it except us tech heads)
Oh and s60 has a LONG LONG way to go before it is as common as PocketPC as the choice of business OS for phones.
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Posted: 2007-01-26 10:51:47
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