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The problem here some talk only about the camera (sensor size, pixels size ect...) almost never of the every day experience of the smartphone. Calls, messaging, browse the web, facebook, twitter, whatsapp, viber, games, cloud, screen...
I thing for these points the 808 can't match the 1020 at all...plus it have a nice camera
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Posted: 2013-09-18 23:04:32
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Its good to see my N8 still in the top three of that chart and beating 2013 technology.
Sonysta, you need to relax a little and understand that you cannot force people to agree with you by constantly protesting the differences. People don't want to be forced to listen to propaganda, Esato isn't oppressed and free will and choice is what goes on here.
I personally side with Dinning and agree with most of his opinions from what ive seen thus far, even though I don't think he's necessarily the cameraphone messiah. Hes certainly not in Steve Jobs league - and I didn't consider him a messiah either.
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Posted: 2013-09-18 23:22:44
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On 2013-09-18 23:22:44, etaab wrote:
Its good to see my N8 still in the top three of that chart and beating 2013 technology.
Sonysta, you need to relax a little and understand that you cannot force people to agree with you by constantly protesting the differences. People don't want to be forced to listen to propaganda, Esato isn't oppressed and free will and choice is what goes on here.
I personally side with Dinning and agree with most of his opinions from what ive seen thus far, even though I don't think he's necessarily the cameraphone messiah. Hes certainly not in Steve Jobs league - and I didn't consider him a messiah either.
My dear Etaab... I'm not trying to impose nor force anything, I'm just trying to represent reality, the facts.
The big problem is that people delude themselves with misleading advertisements and truly believe that something new is necessarily something better.
Here one more proof that equal to 808 PureView there is no world:
http://mynokiablog.com/2013/0[....]-and-nano-particles-from-ucla/
P.S: Indeed Dinning, will never be a Steve Jobs... Equals "Genius Jobs" does not exist and will never exist !!!
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Posted: 2013-09-19 08:22:56
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On 2013-09-19 08:22:56, Sonysta wrote:
On 2013-09-18 23:22:44, etaab wrote:
Its good to see my N8 still in the top three of that chart and beating 2013 technology.
Sonysta, you need to relax a little and understand that you cannot force people to agree with you by constantly protesting the differences. People don't want to be forced to listen to propaganda, Esato isn't oppressed and free will and choice is what goes on here.
I personally side with Dinning and agree with most of his opinions from what ive seen thus far, even though I don't think he's necessarily the cameraphone messiah. Hes certainly not in Steve Jobs league - and I didn't consider him a messiah either.
My dear Etaab... I'm not trying to impose nor force anything, I'm just trying to represent reality, the facts.
The big problem is that people delude themselves with misleading advertisements and truly believe that something new is necessarily something better.
Here one more proof that equal to 808 PureView there is no world:
http://mynokiablog.com/2013/0[....]-and-nano-particles-from-ucla/
P.S: Indeed Dinning, will never be a Steve Jobs... Equals "Genius Jobs" does not exist and will never exist !!!
But you are just in this reply you have gone and totally disregarded Etaabs reply and tried to force more "proof" down our throats, you need to take a step back reread your posts and accept that not everyone thinks the way you do, and want a different balance in their handset choice, how would you feel if you went into a phone shop full of the latest handsets and the salesman said that the only handset he would sell you is his favourite (Nokia 3210). People are going to switch off and not pay any attention to any posts you make if you continue in the way you been going on.
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Posted: 2013-09-19 12:06:12
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On 2013-09-18 23:04:32, davidsic wrote:
. Calls, messaging, browse the web, facebook, twitter, whatsapp, viber, games, cloud, screen...
I thing for these points the 808 can't match the 1020 at all...plus it have a nice camera
I would agree with everything but the calls.. the 808 is a proper phone
call/end buttons, better in call quality, smart dialer...
But its all about compromise, if you know what's important to you its very easy to pick a smartphone.
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Posted: 2013-09-20 00:30:30
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On 2013-09-19 08:22:56, Sonysta wrote:
I'm not trying to impose nor force anything, I'm just trying to represent reality, the facts.
Heh, the most instantly contradicting sentence ive read this year and very entertaining. What you might see as facts might not be facts in some peoples opinions. That's all.
@ cu015170 - very true, to me Symbian is probably the most capable of all operating systems. But in 2013 and no support for the OS coming from Nokia or the serious members of the development community be it in regards to the OS or apps the compromise is now far too great for even me as a power user.
Symbian phones are like swiss army knives. But, if I were a soldier, I wouldn't take a swiss army knife to battle, i'd opt for a bigger gun in the shape of a green Android or a windows.. umm, shaped phone.
The bottom line is, Nokia have abandoned the platform and in doing so rendered it pointless going into 2014.
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Posted: 2013-09-20 01:15:40
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On 2013-09-20 00:30:30, cu015170 wrote:
................... But its all about compromise, if you know what's important to you its very easy to pick a smartphone.
This is SO true!! I only use about 125 min/mo. and maybe 1500 text messages... but I take about 20-30 pictures per day and am always on Foursquare. For me, I could care less about a million useless(IMO) apps and other gimmicks... As long as I have foursquare, a web browser and the BEST available camera, I'M GOOD.
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Posted: 2013-09-20 04:27:54
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On 2013-09-18 18:36:59, cu015170 wrote:
All you have to do is look at this and you can see who's the boss when it comes to imaging
Of course sensor technology, optics, and jpeg processing matter as well, but this is the essential part.
No it's not the essential part!
Take high-end DSLRs for instance.. The only difference a new APS-C camera have over a full framer is a new processing unit and sometimes newer sensor technology. And yet you notice better noise handling in newer crop cameras than in older full framers..
And note that the difference in sensor size in this case is much bigger than that of the 808 to the 1020..
AS I said main difference between the 808 and 1020 is that Nokia used an almost opposite approach to JPEG processing. That's why you notice the difference on 1:1 zoom level.
What appears to be sensor noise under good lighting conditions with the 1020 is nothing but sharpening artifacts. Had Nokia wanted to achieve exact same results of the 808 it would have been easily achieved.
But I argued that the 1020 approach is the one making more sense. And it seems all experts agree on this as well.
With that slight light gathering difference, under same processing algorithms you will need to go beyond 1:1 to notice differences in good light conditions!
As to night, the 1020 has the OIS to its advantage giving it a clear superior advantage.
The 808's advantage is as mentioned before the better Xenon flash photos..
The neutral levels the 808 achieves need to be retouched later.
When Nokia took that approach with the N8 and took it over to the 808, there was no other equal device with different approaches to compare the results to!
We had at the time the iPhone which made cartoonish images due to high saturation levels, with not so reliable focus resulting in a significant amount of blurry photos.. And Sony which went with the aggressive part of oversharpening and boosting the contrast!
With the Lumia 1020 we have the first device of this approach (which even high-end compact cameras costing as much as some midrange DSLRs also use) to compare it to the N8 or the 808..
And to me, going the standard approach instead of the neutral one coupled with Nokia's huge sensor and technology seems the way to go for such a device.
No need to retouch the photos, ready to share and print. And a quality that no other modern high-end smartphone dreams of reaching.
Maybe to settle this for good, in the future Nokia/Microsoft could work on implementing two algorithms to choose from, the neutral one and the standard one as in high-end DSLRs..
And it's not just about the pure still images quality! The Lumia 1020 has the camera interface to its advantage with more manual controls than the 808, and also the camera plug-in (called Lenese in Windows Phone) all accessible from the camera interface and adding some useful and practical functionality! This all enables you to take creative images and scenes that you can not otherwise capture with the 808.
Not to mention the OIS in video which makes a huge difference.
So even if one is to put aside the smartphone general usability and functionality, where Symbian is a dead OS walking, and only focus on the phone + camera part, the 1020 is still the better device.
To sum it up, you do a little experiment: Just get any Lumia 1020 owner you know, go shoot few same photos with both, and print them to 13x18 and the difference for yourself..
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Posted: 2013-09-20 22:05:56
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On 2013-09-20 22:05:56, false_morel wrote:
On 2013-09-18 18:36:59, cu015170 wrote:
All you have to do is look at this and you can see who's the boss when it comes to imaging
Of course sensor technology, optics, and jpeg processing matter as well, but this is the essential part.
No it's not the essential part!
Take high-end DSLRs for instance.. The only difference a new APS-C camera have over a full framer is a new processing unit and sometimes newer sensor technology. And yet you notice better noise handling in newer crop cameras than in older full framers..
And note that the difference in sensor size in this case is much bigger than that of the 808 to the 1020..
AS I said main difference between the 808 and 1020 is that Nokia used an almost opposite approach to JPEG processing. That's why you notice the difference on 1:1 zoom level.
What appears to be sensor noise under good lighting conditions with the 1020 is nothing but sharpening artifacts. Had Nokia wanted to achieve exact same results of the 808 it would have been easily achieved.
But I argued that the 1020 approach is the one making more sense. And it seems all experts agree on this as well.
With that slight light gathering difference, under same processing algorithms you will need to go beyond 1:1 to notice differences in good light conditions!
As to night, the 1020 has the OIS to its advantage giving it a clear superior advantage.
The 808's advantage is as mentioned before the better Xenon flash photos..
The neutral levels the 808 achieves need to be retouched later.
When Nokia took that approach with the N8 and took it over to the 808, there was no other equal device with different approaches to compare the results to!
We had at the time the iPhone which made cartoonish images due to high saturation levels, with not so reliable focus resulting in a significant amount of blurry photos.. And Sony which went with the aggressive part of oversharpening and boosting the contrast!
With the Lumia 1020 we have the first device of this approach (which even high-end compact cameras costing as much as some midrange DSLRs also use) to compare it to the N8 or the 808..
And to me, going the standard approach instead of the neutral one coupled with Nokia's huge sensor and technology seems the way to go for such a device.
No need to retouch the photos, ready to share and print. And a quality that no other modern high-end smartphone dreams of reaching.
Maybe to settle this for good, in the future Nokia/Microsoft could work on implementing two algorithms to choose from, the neutral one and the standard one as in high-end DSLRs..
And it's not just about the pure still images quality! The Lumia 1020 has the camera interface to its advantage with more manual controls than the 808, and also the camera plug-in (called Lenese in Windows Phone) all accessible from the camera interface and adding some useful and practical functionality! This all enables you to take creative images and scenes that you can not otherwise capture with the 808.
Not to mention the OIS in video which makes a huge difference.
So even if one is to put aside the smartphone general usability and functionality, where Symbian is a dead OS walking, and only focus on the phone + camera part, the 1020 is still the better device.
To sum it up, you do a little experiment: Just get any Lumia 1020 owner you know, go shoot few same photos with both, and print them to 13x18 and the difference for yourself..
Consider:
Point 1: OIS for images only is necessary for long exposures of the sensor to light, something rare for photos everyday !
In most cases, ordinary users use xenon flash for taking photos in low light environments (mainly portraits), so 808 will do better, because it has a more powerful xenon flash and greater operating range... 1020 (3 meters) and 808 (4 meters) !
Point 2: 1020 photographic menu is not better than 808 photographic menu, quite the contrary !
1020 does not give us options to control contrast, saturation and sharpness, it is unacceptable for even the late Nokia N90 provided such option !
Not to mention that in mode pureview 1020 will only allow images 5 MP (in ratios 16:9 and 4:3) while 808 allows the selection of images with 3, 5 and 8 MP (in ratios of 16:9 and 4:3) !
The only substantial advantage of the photographic menu 1020 is the ability to control the shutter speed and manual focus (totally expendable resources for common user, say 95% of the owners in 1020) !
Point 3: I Never or any other here or elsewhere questioned the superiority of the department video in 1020 !
It is more than obvious that the digital camcorder 1020 provides the best results to their users, since OIS in videos actually make a big difference !
In short, 808 is and will continue to be the best digital camera that performs and receives calls through the end of 2014 (better lens, neutral density filter built, bigger and better image sensor, bigger and better flash, best photography menu and finally best post processing), while 1020 is and will continue to be the best digital camcorder market (at least until the arrival of Note III and his incredible 4K camcorder), which is a good freebie digital camera and a promising operating system !
Finally see these two charts and see how wrong you are:
P.S: When comparing 1020 and 808, the comparison is given in the aspect camera and camcorder... As smartphone anyone says that Windows Phone is more promising than Symbian... However if it is to weigh the issue OS, Android and iOS are much better options !!!
[ This Message was edited by: Sonysta on 2013-09-20 22:11 ]
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Posted: 2013-09-20 23:03:19
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Sonysta, consider how wrong you are, I for one am sick and tired of hearing your preaching, unless you are willing to listen and accept everyone else has a valid viewpoint it's pointless even reading this topic, you have stated the same thing on so many occasions, yes we know the 808 is a great camera but this a topic about the 1020 so lets get back to that.
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Posted: 2013-09-21 14:03:14
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