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On 2007-10-29 15:20:44, Dogmann wrote:
@>500
As you asked why
" Also, you mention some are blinded by their love and devotion to . I am curious, why does this affect you?"
Well basically because it makes a logical discussion impossible as people are arguing on an emotional level and ignore the facts.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-29 14:21 ]
yes but only becuase of threads like this. Just let them be...
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Posted: 2007-10-30 00:08:52
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@arunvc
1- i agree with u that SE little bit over priced, but about the designs, i think most ppl agree has gerat designs, and u can see that by how many girls strated holding SE fones.. but we dont expect all fones to be great loolking. at the end its mattar of a taste, for example , i have t650 only for its amazing design , while other think it sux..
so u think moto which never had new design since razer , or LG with most of their fones have wierd designs r better?
2- still i think its not fair to compare 2 different fones only cuz of the price, cuz i know many ppl wants the w910 , for its simple and elaiable OS, and did not care for the N81. so its matter wat u want and welling to pay for , not the price, so u should compare 2 fones from same catagory.
3- ok , SE compared to nokia cuz they r the market leader, why i dont see that much comparison from samsung and moto, which both sells more than SE, and always comapted to SE??
4- have u used moto or lg??? they give u headache cuz of their OS , which LG is moving on the right path to be better, while moto, still stuck 3 years back. while samsung, adopt the SE menue, with some modification, and still , for many new fones, they r so normal as SE, cuz they make wat they can sell , not wat they can show..
5- i dont think k850 was beaten to death, cuz most pics were compared from prototype against final prdoduct, like samsung, and fixed bugs like N95. but the pics am seeing now are so great, and thats the same story happened with k800, which was good in final release, and only after 2nd upgrade , it was the best in the market with no other to compete with...
SE like samsung, make phone which ppl wanna buy and keep , which will give them profit, not only to sell , and resell again, like N95, u will be amazed how many ppl r selling it back only few days after buying it.
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Posted: 2007-10-30 01:58:21
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bahraini:
Honestly some threads here are designed only to bash SE. more definitely discernible on W910 vs N81 thread, K850 vs N95 quality(no offense). i guess both have their own buyers, but some people forces others to do a number on the phone they personally like. i can't see the purpose of this kind of comparison as well
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Posted: 2007-10-30 02:16:38
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On 2007-10-29 18:55:22, Dogmann wrote:
@jemuel
Two things firstly i was answering a question i had been asked so i really don't get your snide comment, and secondly was it really necessary to quote a post just two post's above? Please show some consideration for your fellow ESATO users many of whom visit ESATO over WAP and really don't need every post to quote a previous post which both slows down their browsing and uses more Data.
Marc
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Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-29 17:55 ]
didn't mean that one... sorry, my mistake... no hard feelings ok?
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I Esato[ This Message was edited by: jemuel on 2007-10-30 01:36 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-30 02:33:58
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On 2007-10-30 02:16:38, razec wrote:
bahraini:
Honestly some threads here are designed only to bash SE. more definitely discernible on W910 vs N81 thread, K850 vs N95 quality(no offense). i guess both have their own buyers, but some people forces others to do a number on the phone they personally like. i can't see the purpose of this kind of comparison as well
At the very least, no one bash K850/W910 with false information.
This is not what I can say about some SE fans who bash other makes. Every one is the wiser when presented with true information (no matter how hurtful it is to take) . Dont you think so?
bahraini
The following compares the production K850 with N95. K850 cam is still undeniably loses to N95. K850 cam/photo has not changed much since the first pre-production photos came out (and that's like a few months ago). So dont hold your breath that the cam can be improved any further.
http://mobil.idnes.cz/sony-er[....]24_212325_mob_sonyericsson_vok
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Posted: 2007-10-30 03:57:01
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On 2007-10-30 03:57:01, mib1800 wrote:
bahraini
The following compares the production K850 with N95. K850 cam is still undeniably loses to N95. K850 cam/photo has not changed much since the first pre-production photos came out (and that's like a few months ago). So dont hold your breath that the cam can be improved any further.
http://mobil.idnes.cz/sony-er[....]24_212325_mob_sonyericsson_vok
I don't know where you have get the impression that K850 camera won't improve further and N95 was overall better as the hard fact regarding detail loss, oversaturation, and poor macro generally describes N95 weak spot that K850 outperformed it as proven by many actual users already. I remember mobile-review's N95 vs K800 camera review which explains N95's inevitable weakness in macro, detail loss and overexposure and you declare K850 which even shows more details, has sharper macro and better low light losses undeniably.
"So dont hold your breath that the cam can be improved any further.
"
have you already heard of the popular cam driver modding? most currently cybershots and AF SE phones except T650 and P990 have cam drivers which undeniably increases picture quality of the images and there is no reason that modders won't touch the flagship K850 as well. that sentence shows how you are bound and determined to make yourself right and make those who don't believe you to do a number on themselves. again,imho there is no point arguing with this as this always end up being a Nokia vs SE fanwar. but to force someone to believe what you want is indeed not standard to human differences.
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know drawing? tell us here [ This Message was edited by: razec on 2007-10-30 03:18 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-30 04:17:50
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On 2007-10-30 04:17:50, razec wrote:
I don't know where you have get the impression that K850 camera won't improve further and N95 was overall better as the hard fact regarding detail loss, oversaturation, and poor macro generally describes N95 weak spot that K850 outperformed it as proven by many actual users already. I remember mobile-review's N95 vs K800 camera review which explains N95's inevitable weakness in macro, detail loss and overexposure and you declare K850 which even shows more details, has sharper macro and better low light losses undeniably.
Well, SE had a few months (since pre-production photos) to improve it but the production unit still came out the way it is. I just based it on this fact.
And in the comparison, K850 macro shot (i.e. the newspaper shot) was crap compared to N95. So K850 can also produce crap macro shots as well. It may be more fiddly to get a good N95 macro shot but K850 is also able to perform badly in macro shots as well
have you already heard of the popular cam driver modding? most currently cybershots and AF SE phones except T650 and P990 have cam drivers which undeniably increases picture quality of the images and there is no reason that modders won't touch the flagship K850 as well. that sentence shows how you are bound and determined to make yourself right and make those who don't believe you to do a number on themselves. again,imho there is no point arguing with this as this always end up being a Nokia vs SE fanwar. but to force someone to believe what you want is indeed not standard to human differences.
How about changing the cam module in K850 to better one?
Some modders can do that also. But what's the point of this. You pay so much for K850 and yet put up with all this. And not everyone wants to take the risk bricking the phone. Why not just get the better phone? Not that K850 is a must have phone (since in terms of functionalities it is a dinosaur compared to N95)
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-10-30 04:17 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-30 05:00:05
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On 2007-10-30 05:00:05, mib1800 wrote:
On 2007-10-30 04:17:50, razec wrote:
I don't know where you have get the impression that K850 camera won't improve further and N95 was overall better as the hard fact regarding detail loss, oversaturation, and poor macro generally describes N95 weak spot that K850 outperformed it as proven by many actual users already. I remember mobile-review's N95 vs K800 camera review which explains N95's inevitable weakness in macro, detail loss and overexposure and you declare K850 which even shows more details, has sharper macro and better low light losses undeniably.
Well, SE had a few months (since pre-production photos) to improve it but the production unit still came out the way it is. I just based it on this fact.
And in the comparison, K850 macro shot (i.e. the newspaper shot) was crap compared to N95. So K850 can also produce crap macro shots as well. It may be more fiddly to get a good N95 macro shot but K850 dont
have you already heard of the popular cam driver modding? most currently cybershots and AF SE phones except T650 and P990 have cam drivers which undeniably increases picture quality of the images and there is no reason that modders won't touch the flagship K850 as well. that sentence shows how you are bound and determined to make yourself right and make those who don't believe you to do a number on themselves. again,imho there is no point arguing with this as this always end up being a Nokia vs SE fanwar. but to force someone to believe what you want is indeed not standard to human differences.
How about changing the cam module in K850 to better one?
Some modders can do that also. But what's the point of this. You pay so much for K850 and yet put up with all this. And not everyone wants to take the risk bricking the phone. Why not just get the better phone? Not that K850 is a must have phone (since in terms of functionalities it is a dinosaur compared to N95)
Lol, so you are expecting that a cam phone can't make a hit and miss shot? even digicams make poor shots. and even N95 can make bad macro shots, if you have seen the pictures i posted on the thread "N95 - should i buy one"
"But what's the point of this. You pay so much for K850 and yet put up with all this."
Don't you think that Nokia also provides update that fixes N95 cam problems like over saturation and over sharpness, and yet the issue still exist. if you want proof try looking at mobile-review's K800 vs N95 cam test(note that N95 has it's early final firmware version there
). and i also remember somewhere at allaboutsymbian that nokia provided an update to fix the overcompression/saturation on N95 shots(even though it still persist) and you said N95 has got that good image quality you are implying with it's early firmware version? I prefer modding a cam driver than downloading a fixed phone update in the sense that there can be variations in the previous, and people can choose what's the best update for their phone.
Why not just get the better phone?
--> i can have a different definition to this, everyone has their own preferences of which is better, but please do not force them to choose what you want
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Posted: 2007-10-30 05:26:17
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On 2007-10-30 05:26:17, razec wrote:
Don't you think that Nokia also provides update that fixes N95 cam problems like over saturation and over sharpness, and yet the issue still exist. if you want proof try looking at mobile-review's K800 vs N95 cam test(note that N95 has it's early final firmware version there
). and i also remember somewhere at allaboutsymbian that nokia provided an update to fix the overcompression/saturation on N95 shots(even though it still persist) and you said N95 has got that good image quality you are implying with it's early firmware version? I prefer modding a cam driver than downloading a fixed phone update in the sense that there can be variations in the previous, and people can choose what's the best update for their phone.
My point is why wait for something (i.e. major improvement) that may or may not happened or go thru trouble of modding etc etc when u can get a better alternatives off-the-shelf?
Why not just get the better phone?
--> i can have a different definition to this, everyone has their own preferences of which is better, but please do not force them to choose what you want
When did I force anyone?. Or are you saying that we should not highlight to those less informed who are looking at buying K850 but do not know the actual situation or better alternatives?
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Posted: 2007-10-30 09:20:48
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On 2007-10-29 13:41:34, mailboxmanoj wrote:
I agree with u, the ONLY reason this is happening is coz people are expecting a lot from SE and they want to see SE beat Nokia in every aspect of communication and why not? coz SE has the capability!!!
Wrong, wrong and wrong.
Expecting a device to perform as advertised is NOT expecting a lot from SE. Or is it?
SE beat Nokia? I couldn't care less who beats who. Any one who can deliver a good product that performs true to its specifications is a winner for me. I will look at the specifications and determine what I need. If the device can't do what it claims it will do, it is not only a definite looser but also bad ethics.
SE has the capability to what?
Design solid working phones? - No
Any acceptable level of technical support? - None existent.
Support its products over time? - No.
Good customer relations? - Noooooo, a company of deafs and mutes.
Am I missing something? Anything that can be said in favor of SE?
Sorry guys, being a long time SE user and having used all the Pxx series phones, the latest lineup of UIQ3 phones and SE's attitude has just lost me as a loyal customer.
And why Nokia? Could be any other brand but currently Nokia shows most potential in coming up with a good alternative to the current smartphone selection from SE.
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[ This Message was edited by: makbil on 2007-10-30 12:12 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-30 11:31:50
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