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I'm Sure The
Lumia 920 PureView Will An Excellent Smart/Cameraphone... However Also I Am Sure That Will Less The Photographic Aspect To
808 PUREVIEW And
NSERIES N8 !!!
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Posted: 2012-09-07 08:50:17
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I'm pretty sure some fanboys here will attack/insult/bash me after this but I think 920 isn't a real pureview to me, I don't know if the Nokia engineers behind the 808 development were already laid off and the company is left only of smartasses such as Elop and the current VP who decided to rebrand this phone as a pureview device despite not being qualified enough for the title.
I've always known pureview tech as nokia's technique for creating the better 5/8MP image utilizing pixel-binning complemented by a large sensor which is key for achieving very good pixel-noise ratio, Nokia's decision to use a very large sensor on 808 brought them an advantage on achieving the class-leading depth of field as well, also the fact that they used a very powerful xenon flash further adds up to the lowlight capabilities of the phone but somehow I failed to understand why would they forgo those things and with a small sensor being used on 920, and I don't think it will be better than N8 either, no matter how the only guys left at nokia try to convince their buyers of the phoney imaging prowess of 920, I think it's just a glorified iPhone 4S/Xperia P with optical image stabilizer, a large aperture would've been useful for 1/2.3" BSI sensor or larger but for a 1/3" with BSI or not there's not much helping on it. also 920 will surely lose the amazing bokeh effect on 808 with that small sensor. btw I don't know what sensor is used on this device (if anyone knows please correct me) but I wouldn't be surprised if they would also use the same sony sensor that's been used on 4S/S3 and Xperia P. so to sum them up, imho, 920 is a downgrade from 808 and N8 as I see it. and it's not a true pureview phone for me
Nokia's decision to forgo xenon flash mirrors what they also did to N86 8mp and to refresh everyone's minds here Nokia stated before that their so-called 3rd generation LED flash (which is 2-3 times more powerful than conventional LEDs) are more than adequate for handling lowlight, since it uses variable aperture and at that time N86 8mp had the widest aperture of all cameraphones, Nokia more or less expects N86's flash to perform as good as N82) but everyone knows what happened, not only it failed to beat the one year old Samsung innoV8 with smaller sensor (i believe N86's sensor size is 1/2.5" just like N82) in image quality and
C905 remained the lowlight king for its powerful Xenon flash. I know my post seems to be a form of bash against 920 and the company itself but despite being a "Hard-core" Sony fan (as someone deliberately mentioned before) I appreciate innovation, and I don't detest any brand that competes with Sony or
I like the past Samsung for aggressive designs and the current Samsung for extreme aggressiveness on spec race.
sorry for the long post and for typos, as I'll be less active in esato than I used to.
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Posted: 2012-09-07 09:59:49
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@razec, why would anyone think You are bashing? You are jest telling the truth, and what some of us think, me included. The sensor in 920 isn't present in any other phone (8,7 MPx hints that, never heard of a phone with such resolution).
I would really love to see 41MP on a WP8 phone (on Android it would be overkill but it won't happen
). At least now I don't have to make a chocie Android vs WP8 since Nokia did nothing special there.
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Posted: 2012-09-07 10:16:21
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The "bottle neck" is the OS.
The system on the 808 requires TWO silicon chips to work in sync (GPU+DSP) in order to process all the raw information from the sensor. So.. the only way to do that without any latency issues is a REAL TIME OS, which is exactly what Symbian (EKA2) is .. and that is why it works so well. Win NT, andro, and iOS, are all monolithic kernels, and it will be much harder to do all that.
In order for them to do that on WP(same for android), they will have to wait for a single SoC that can handle all that processing, and there isn't one on the market at the moment, most of them can handle up to 20Mpix, but event then, I don't know if they are powerful enough to do all the oversampling, which is the key with the 808.. otherwise the pixels are still very small @ 1.4 microns (just like the 920 and all the other flagships on sale), but with combining pixels, they kind of remedy the issue. You can still see the weakness tho.. the DR on the 808 is way weaker than a camera with physically bigger pixels..
THe 808 is supposed to achieve pixels sizes of around 3.0 microns in 5Mpix pureview mode, and from what I've seen on mine, i sort of believe them, there is simply no other way to achieve such quality with native 1.4 micorn pixels, which is basically what it has, but... LOTS of them
The optics helps A LOT of course..
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2012-09-07 09:50 ]
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Posted: 2012-09-07 10:44:04
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Completely agree with your post razec
Also I think 920 is using a Toshiba sensor and not Sony.
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Posted: 2012-09-07 10:48:17
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^ Toshiba makes BSI sensors ?
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Posted: 2012-09-07 10:50:35
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On 2012-09-07 09:59:49, razec wrote:
I'm pretty sure some fanboys here will attack/insult/bash me after this but I think 920 isn't a real pureview to me, I don't know if the Nokia engineers behind the 808 development were already laid off and the company is left only of smartasses such as Elop and the current VP who decided to rebrand this phone as a pureview device despite not being qualified enough for the title.
I've always known pureview tech as nokia's technique for creating the better 5/8MP image utilizing pixel-binning complemented by a large sensor which is key for achieving very good pixel-noise ratio, Nokia's decision to use a very large sensor on 808 brought them an advantage on achieving the class-leading depth of field as well, also the fact that they used a very powerful xenon flash further adds up to the lowlight capabilities of the phone but somehow I failed to understand why would they forgo those things and with a small sensor being used on 920, and I don't think it will be better than N8 either, no matter how the only guys left at nokia try to convince their buyers of the phoney imaging prowess of 920, I think it's just a glorified iPhone 4S/Xperia P with optical image stabilizer, a large aperture would've been useful for 1/2.3" BSI sensor or larger but for a 1/3" with BSI or not there's not much helping on it. also 920 will surely lose the amazing bokeh effect on 808 with that small sensor. btw I don't know what sensor is used on this device (if anyone knows please correct me) but I wouldn't be surprised if they would also use the same sony sensor that's been used on 4S/S3 and Xperia P. so to sum them up, imho, 920 is a downgrade from 808 and N8 as I see it. and it's not a true pureview phone for me
Nokia's decision to forgo xenon flash mirrors what they also did to N86 8mp and to refresh everyone's minds here Nokia stated before that their so-called 3rd generation LED flash (which is 2-3 times more powerful than conventional LEDs) are more than adequate for handling lowlight, since it uses variable aperture and at that time N86 8mp had the widest aperture of all cameraphones, Nokia more or less expects N86's flash to perform as good as N82) but everyone knows what happened, not only it failed to beat the one year old Samsung innoV8 with smaller sensor (i believe N86's sensor size is 1/2.5" just like N82) in image quality and
C905 remained the lowlight king for its powerful Xenon flash. I know my post seems to be a form of bash against 920 and the company itself but despite being a "Hard-core" Sony fan (as someone deliberately mentioned before) I appreciate innovation, and I don't detest any brand that competes with Sony or
I like the past Samsung for aggressive designs and the current Samsung for extreme aggressiveness on spec race.
sorry for the long post and for typos, as I'll be less active in esato than I used to.
THIS!! +1
Completely agree!
Also going by what cu015170 said, it seems Nokia set the bar a bit too high with the 808 for themselves, and were forced to throw in a average camera in 920 and not a proper PV camera.
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Posted: 2012-09-07 10:53:53
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^ They had to.. since they are not using Symbian on the 920, there is no way to make the 808 system work, at least in its current state.
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Posted: 2012-09-07 10:59:07
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I know that every company does exaggerate, but with lumia 920, and its heavy focus on OIS and camera, its dissapointing to know they faked both the images and video. Even saying stuff like its better than an slr camera.
I guess both nokia and microsoft have realised that wp8 wasn't going to be a big news, so they have created this hype over fake claims, that will definitely get them more unaware customers.
More over, I donot know why anyone would need an s4 in such a "capable os" that did not need vague improvements such as dual cores and quadcores to do everything. If wp8 was more efficient than wp7, they should have just downgraded the cpu to 800mhz just to prove it
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Posted: 2012-09-07 13:05:37
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Nokia hasn't been able to show more, because WP8 isn't ready yet.
A guy I know from a Dutch forum works for Microsoft NL and he already has a Lumia 920, but he's still getting a new build almost daily.
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Posted: 2012-09-07 18:20:30
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