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< Esato Forum Index > Manufacturer Discussion > Nokia > Lumia 1020 vs 808 PV vs any potential rival. Bookmark topic

Yes DXO are very good.. how do you explain the flash results ? The Z1 has better flash than the 1020 ?

They also concluded that the iPhone 5s has a better camera, and the 808 is on top of them all by a single point.. please.. their scoring system makes no sense.
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Posted: 2013-10-17 18:46:08
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Problem with DXO Labs that they don't provide their measurements and tests for public viewing. One must pay for this.

For the Flash test though, they measure how the camera behaves compared to what it does without flash. That's why the LED equipped phones are on par with the Xenon ones on their tests.

They surely need to address this part though. What applies to DSLRs doesn't apply to mobile phones. With DSLRs no one considers the quality of the flash itself. Since it is a separate device mounted on the camera. One could compare the flash modules themselves, but not worth it as the specs say it all for flashes.
What's important is to measure and test how the camera deals with the flash mounted.

With cameraphones, it's a totally different case of course. And they need to adjust their approach. An LED flash isn't a flash in my own dictionary. Just an LED lamp to help light the scene. Xenon modules on the 808 and 1020 are real flashes.

So yeah, flash testing may be flawed, but results still make sense..



DXOmark usually test lenses and sensors independently.
With mobile phones this not possible of course.

And by judging a whole camera module, noise levels and detail retention become just two of many factors to consider.

Yes the noise and detail in the 5MP photos by 808 and 1020 are well ahead of the competition, but when it comes to other measures, they are no better.

Regarding noise and detail btw, DXO had this to say:
"Low noise and high detail retention are the hallmarks of the Nokia Lumia 1020, outperforming its predecessor, the Nokia Pureview 808, in those two metrics"

Where the 1020 fails is at rendering color! With its weak auto WB it scored a low 56! If Nokia address this through an update, which sure they will, the 1020 will jump over all other phones in still image quality.

Another area Nokia could address with the 1020 is the artifacts. In specific, color shading as DXO Labs highlighted. This could easily be addressed through an update unlike other factors.

So 1020 weaknesses are in areas easily fixed through updates.
And adjusting the coloring alone will put the 1020 at the top of the bunch.

As to video, DXO don't consider audio capture where the 808 and 1020 excel and are way ahead of the competition. They focus on image quality.
And here the 1020 fails at artifacts and noise surprisingly. Also coloring is behind the competition. This is a clear clumsy work from Nokia here. They need to address this through an update as well.

As to stabilization, DXO also stress on the jelly effect when panning through video. And it seems the 1020 is not as good at this as the competition. Also when mounted on tripod the stabilization doesn't recognize it and overcompensates. Still the 1020 not way behind in this area. But it could be much better.

It's clear that Nokia gave some areas more priority than others when developing the 808 and 1020. And I think they opt to reconsider this. Putting so much emphasis on noise, detail, and sharpness while delivering poor WB and not optimizing the artifacts isn't wise imo. And not new to Nokia. Same patterns were there in the N8 btw..

And note that DXO only focus on testing image quality. The don't consider performance and features. Lossless zoom of 808 and 1020 is a huge feature. Camera Pro app and creative mode on the 1020 and 808 respectively are another.

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Posted: 2013-10-17 21:26:10
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Look at that ! http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/features/item/18571_Smartphone_camera_shootout_Nok.php


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Posted: 2013-10-17 21:42:36
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Once again the 808 was used in 85% JPEG compression vs. 95% for all other cameras I still don't get why he does that..
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Posted: 2013-10-17 23:26:50
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You saw for yourself in this very thread what insignificant advantage the extra MBs bring.

The 808 would fair the same against the competition with the 95 compression..
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Posted: 2013-10-17 23:44:07
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Its not insignificant at all.. and the files sizes would be in line with the other phones.

In the meantime, let us enjoy some nice pixels from the 808






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Posted: 2013-10-18 00:27:55
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No doubt Steve should put the 808 at 95 compression for these tests.
His argument is that he wants left all the phones at full auto. And also 95 ratio isn't a game changer for the 808 anyway.

But I would have put the 808 in its manual mode and left everything at auto only for the compression ratio. Not sure if the phones would behave the same regarding other parameters, but most probably it would.
So I disagree with Steve on this one.

The argument that the 95 ratio wouldn't have changed the outcome of the comparison stands true as illustrated in this thread by the photos you provided, allowing to compare the difference from 85 to 808's 95 and to 1020's output.

The patterns are clear where each phone would win by now:

- Landscapes at day (be it bright and clear, or cloudy and dim): 1020
- City- or landscapes at night: 1020
- Day Portraits: Haven't seen enough 808 samples to judge on this one
- Night Portraits (outdoors without flash): 1020
- Night Portraits (indoors with flash): 808
- General indoors flash use: 808
- General low light on auto without flash: 1020
- General bright light: 808
- Macro: both are poor

And one must add the SmartCam features which are amazing! Also the SS manual control on the 1020 which can go up to 4 seconds. And in tiny steps as well.



I think there is another thread for this!
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Posted: 2013-10-18 04:45:31
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Congratulations for these beautiful shots... They only prove the supremacy of the 808 PureView Compared to any smartphone and compact digital camera !

The 1020 and other devices with camera, left crying so jealous !

The defenders of the 1020, cry with envy too and there remains only the alternative of buying the 1020 and with photos to prove que he indeed is better and not create the most ridiculous conspiracy theory in the world !

But one question remains in the air ?

Because the citizen who defends both the 1020, the does not have 1020 ?

What mystery !

P.S: Congratulations Cu015170 , you're an artist in the art of photography !

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Posted: 2013-10-18 05:30:02
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Cry with envy?? You really think people are actually going to cry about it?? Goodness sake
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Posted: 2013-10-18 10:39:00
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LMAO.... I gotta go with sean on this one! totally over the top, c'mon bro - what we're talking about here is literally at a finite level.... NO ONE (not even cu, imo) is going to have 1020 users crying with jealousy, cut the drama.

Sure, I too think the 808 is a superior imaging device but lets try and keep the debate realistic. Lets not try and dump the 1020 to the bottom of the heap just because old nokia over engineered a device most "normal"people have no idea even was ever made.

If in fact there was no 808, hands down- I would already own the 1020 (still even toying with the idea actually).

As I've said before, other than making large prints (which most of us never even do), the 808`s abilities are overkill. For posting online, email and even small prints $5 says NO ONE can tell the difference /much less "cry"over it...
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Posted: 2013-10-18 11:48:42
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