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@mib1800

I'm not labelling anyone 'mindless', I am suggesting that Nokia sell as many mobiles as they do because most of their customers do not care about advanced features or technical details and opt for the brand they recognise and are familiar with.

SE sell fewer mobiles of all types, not just smartphones, than Nokia because they are a smaller company with a less well known global brand. SE have been rumoured to be releasing a cheaper smartphone for some time now, but even if they do so they will most likely still sell fewer smartphones than Nokia, for the reasons I have stated.

I used to genuinely like Nokia products, but I now see them as being lacking; in terms of design, functionality, value for money and innovation. I dc genuinely want to see Nokia return to its 'glory days' as better products are good for customers and for stimulating other manufacturers.
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Posted: 2004-09-22 17:37:00
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scotsboyuk:

Quote:...I am suggesting that Nokia sell as many mobiles as they do because most of their customers do not care about advanced features or technical details and opt for the brand they recognise and are familiar with

imo, this only applies to the low end of the market. for example, if a person is offered free either a Nokia or SE phone (both having similar functions), most would go with the familiar one without second thought.

but this is NOT true all the time. lets say the SE has a color screen (i.e. more advanced) whereas Nokia does not. By introducing this factor, it will make the consumer sit up and think and take the trouble to evaluate the choices. if he still goes for the Nokia he would hv gone thru the pros and cons. so in this case, Nokia did not win by default as your above statement suggested otherwise.

for the mid-to-high end phones this "evaluation" is more extensive because the fact u need to fork out your hard-earned cash. (i.e. they want to get the best deal at cheapest possible price)

very simple, if the K700 have a card slot, more stable, same price as 6230 then most people would go for K700 even if they are currently Nokia users.

This is an ongoing race. When SE achieved status with the T610, SE did it with effort. Similarly, if Nokia keeps its customers, it is done with effort (we know they did not do that very well for last few years).

unfortunately, we see many contrary in this forum. So when Nokia wins an upperhand over SE, dont blame it on consumers, blame SE instead for not being competitive enough.



[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2004-09-23 05:54 ]
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Posted: 2004-09-23 06:23:27
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@mib1800

I would agree with you to a point, but I believe there to be fundamental differences between certain types of customer. The majority of the mobile phone market is made up of customers wanting basic mobiles and Nokia cater to this group very well indeed. When it comes to mobiles with 'extra' features, most customers don't care and/or understand such features. The average chap in the street doesn't care about, which brand of memory card a mobile supports, in fact he probably doesn't even care if it has memory card functionolity at all. This is the sort of customer companies like SE aren't getting at the moment.

SE need to increase their presence and improve their public image. Whilst SE may be favoured amongst certain 'geek' circles i.e. us, they also need to appeal to a wider audience. I think we have to be realistic and remember that SE are still very much a new company, they will need time to develop a full range and to win customers.

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Posted: 2004-09-23 12:41:00
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@scots[...] dude Nokia just killed off the "geek" market also, by launching what I had predicted in the K700i vs Nokia thread (a symbian with Mp. Camera and 6600 style. I just can't wait to get my hands on that phone
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Posted: 2004-09-23 12:46:29
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Nokia are still upto there old tricks (releasing one phone one month then a “new” phone the next with an extra feature)
When I buy a phone I would like to think it would last a year and still be able to compete with other phones.
When I got the t68m it was still a great phone after a year, the same with the t610 (and now I hope with my k700).
Nokia seem to release phone after phone making there customers want the new model (which is properly the same as there existing model but with Bluetooth or something) after only a couple of months (which many do go out and buy).
That is why Nokia are so big! (in my eye’s)
SE I’m glad don’t release phone after phone and still can keep up with other brands after a few months. Instead they release home update services where people can easily update and fix bug’s on there phone’s rather than having to shell out on a new one.
Where if you’ve got a nokia with a bug you’re stuck with it unless you go out of your way to fix it!

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Posted: 2004-09-23 13:30:00
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that's the big advantage Nokia has with the series 60 symbian. i believe it would be very difficult to dislodge them from this.

Now that nokia has a stable, workable and compact symbian platform, it needs little effort to come out with new phones ==> they just repackage the same platform into various casing targeting different taste. It throws in some additional software developed by 3rd party which could easily blows away the competition.

For example, the new 6670 comes with full html browser that can display pdf files. It also has full screen video player and host of other functions. Did Nokia spend research money doing this. Absolutely NO. These are all 3rd party software. Even my 6600 which is 12 months old can do all these.

Contrast this to the SE S700 which dont even support a full web browser or full screen video playback. I think many SE fans will bombast Nokia for deceiving consumers by coming up with repackage phone. But hey, just think about it, even these repackage phones can easily blows away the competition in terms of functionality.


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Posted: 2004-09-23 13:56:34
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I don't mind Nokia bringing out a lot of phones with 'old tricks'.

If only SE had a phone of €150 to fill the gap in this (imho) important piece of the market.

Siemsn understood this very well and they are piling up their models around that price range and their market share is rising.
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Posted: 2004-09-23 14:38:24
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At the risk of repeating myself I still hold to the view that Nokia's customer base largely consists of those customers who simply want a mobile phone and either don't care or don't understand advanced functionality. I was in a CPW not so long ago waiting for the chap to check up on something for, and as I was waiting there several people came into the shop, one after the other, and bought mobile phones; all Nokia, and all basic models. Of course there is nothing wrong with this, but to hear them describe their new purchases one would have thought that they had the best technology on Earth in their hands. The sales assistant actually said to me, at one point, that he didn't understand why so many people choose such basic phones when they could get much better ones, Nokia or otherwise, for the same price, or, in some cases, cheaper.

Nokia does have some very reasonable mobiles on offer, but for myself, and a growing number of others, they are simply not appealling anymore. I think this is due to several reasons, not all of, which are technological. There is a definite bias against Nokia amongst the more technologicaly minded, this forum is evidence enough of that, however, I think that negative attitudes towards Nokia run deeper than that. There is a strong cultural movement developing that is perhaps labelling Nokia as being 'too common' and perhaps even 'too basic'. I think that Nokia's success may actually be what is working against it, with some customers not wanting to be associated with the Nokia brand. In this case it doesn't matter what products Nokia release because such people are not judging Nokia on technological sophistication or functionality, but rather they are forming their opinion based on cultural trends.

I don't think it is actually fair to compare Nokia with SE because they are two different companies with different approaches to the mobile phone market. SE is a relatively small company when compared to Nokia and it targets a different type of customer with the majority of its products; this will no doubt change as SE expand and grow. I would have to say that Nokia does still have an edge, but it is an edge that is slipping all the time. Innovation amongst competitors is forcing Nokia to be ever more daring, which of course means a certain degree of specialisation, the very thing Nokia seems to try and avoid.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-09-24 23:52 ]
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Posted: 2004-09-24 01:16:54
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Proportionally, SE sells to more "technical inclined" consumers than Nokia. This is understandable as SE has few low/mid range handsets. These groups of consumers are more difficult to please and less gullible. SE would have a hard time keeping them unless it has an answer to the smartphone question.

Very simple. Let's say tomorrow Nokia comes out with a swivel 1.3Mp symbian OS handset similar to S700 and at similar price. To the technically inclined, no matter which way u evaluate, the S700 still loses out. Unless u hold a grudge against Nokia, then the choice is clear.

So with the series 60 symbian Nokia is eating into the geeky space of SE. (all Nokia mid-high end phones will be symbian enabled). SE does not have a low-end segment and yet have its mid-high end segment will be threatened.

So how can SE have an edge?



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Posted: 2004-09-24 03:49:52
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Quote:
On 2004-09-21 12:32:11, joebmc wrote:
Big companys dont need punch line's!
Anyone know microsofts???



Where do you want to go today?
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Posted: 2004-09-24 06:57:04
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