>
New Topic
>
Reply<
Esato Forum Index
>
Manufacturer Discussion >
Nokia
> Nokia Lumia 1020
Bookmark topic
Sonysta & cu you will use your 808 until your 75 year old's birthday !
and what about that ?
And so on...
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 21:01:45
Edit :
Quote
^
... just until something better comes along.. shouldn't be long now
And I said for most cases, no all cases..
This is how I see the current smartphone camera situation
808------->1020/N8--->Z1/Gs4zoom--> ip5s/gs4
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 21:15:50
Edit :
Quote
On 2013-09-26 07:35:07, cu015170 wrote:
The full resolution images of the 1020 are what you would normally get from 1.1 micron pixels.
You seriously think that 1.4 microns make all THAAAAAAAAAT difference to 1.1?!
Take the D600 at 5.9 microns and the D700 at 8.4 microns.
Four years apart. Two full framers.
Can you explain to us how the D600 significantly delivers better image quality? Backed up by DXO as well.
I can go even further, D7000 at 4.8 microns.
Two years apart from the D700, 1.5x crop sensor as well.
Although the D700 is one stop better in ISO level (which is little considering the microns difference), how come the D7000 delivers equal overall RAW image quality?
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 23:05:41
Edit :
Quote
I can't but wonder how come the 1020 offers such a hot debate platform for cameraphone enthusiasts!
Specially regarding Nokia fans and 808/N8 owners.
Because there is nothing to debate really. There are personal preferences and facts. Mixing both is what leading to such fruitless debates.
IMO, Nokia failed to deliver the spot on end results in both their philosophies. 808 and 1020! Which is a bit frustrating given the technology and ground breaking hardware they achieved.
808 too soft, 1020 a bit oversharpened. If one to compare both with standard results from stand-alone popular high-end cameras.
I'll put it this way:
If I to choose between an N8/808 and any modern cameraphone from the iPhone to S4 to Z1, only based on camera performance, I would certainly take the former.
Too soft most of the time, neutral colors, which means at many occasions I would have to do retouching, but the image quality difference is substantial to overlook.
If I to choose between the 1020 and the same bunch, it is a no brainer.
Now between the Nokia themselves, the 1020's photos are closer to what I would end with given I have the RAW images at neutral setting and have to develop them through.
Would do with less saturation, and definitely less sharpening. But overall, closer to what one would have ended with compared to the neutral approach of the N8/808.
So in brief, with the 1020 Nokia tried to take what the current stand-alone cameras and current bunch of cameraphones had over the N8/808, and applied to the 1020 while using same base technology leading to capturing significantly more details. They ended up though overdoing a little bit.
But this according to an enthusiast who would pixel peep or at least examine the photos at 1:1 zoom. To the average Joe the slightly oversharpened and oversaturated images of the 1020 are much satisfying.
Some, like Damian Dinning, asked that Nokia would implement a feature to enable the user choose between Neutral JPEG and Standard JPEG.
I would argue that they need to give three options: Neutral (read 808 and N8), Internet Standard (current settings), Standard (true standard by removing this slight overshapening and oversaturating).
As to the automatic White Balance, Nokia always had problems in this department. I can't tell why they still have this problem.
I had to deal it with in the N8 times, it's still there in the 808, and there with all Lumias!
One always need to overwrite the automatic WB in some situations.
While in other cameraphones it doesn't seem the situation.
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 23:27:36
Edit :
Quote
On 2013-09-26 19:16:00, lemmy31 wrote:
PS.......no it doesn't
Please read what has been said :
" Asking me to pick between an 808 and a Lumia 1020 is a very tough call. However, much as I love the venerable old N8, I'd pick the Lumia 1020 in a heartbeat"
He also states not to read too much into the sores given.
"Don't take the scores too seriously though, since any result here will depend hugely on the choice of subjects and how often (or rarely) I allowed PureView zoom at capture time. I picked the subjects almost at random but tried to include as wide a variety as possible"
So ... I do not need to see the test results, because an opinion is very subjective, especially coming from Steve (who is a pull Windows Phone) !
In my opinion the pictures speak for themselves !
In all situations the N8 fared better especially with regard to noise and white balance !
In virtually all images 1020 has more noise, not to mention always erred on the white balance !
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 23:27:48
Edit :
Quote
On 2013-09-26 21:01:45, davidsic wrote:
Sonysta & cu you will use your 808 until your 75 year old's birthday !
and what about that ?
And so on...
I agree with everything said Cu015170 !
Until there is actually something better than the 808, it is will be my main smartphone!
Just disagree with Cu015170 when he says he will soon emerge something better than the 808 !
In my opinion it will take and should only take place in October 2014 (Nokia World) or February 2015 (WMC), before that there is the slightest chance !
And I see the current situation smartphone camera:
808 (______Abyss______) N8 - 1020 - Note III - S4 Zoom - iPhone 5S/Galaxy S4 - Xperia Z1 - G2 - Moto X - iPhone 5/5C !
P.S: All other cameraphones (included Lumia 920, Lumia 925, Lumia 928, Xperia Z, Xperia ZL) have bad quality !!!
[ This Message was edited by: Sonysta on 2013-09-26 22:46 ]
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 23:39:10
Edit :
Quote
Ive never had a problem with WB on my N8. Strange.
Like ive said, and we do seem to be going round in circles, they need to allow the 1020 to have a neutral option via an app update just like Dinning thinks.
The Pro camera app is what powers the 1020's camera. All they need do is update it to make it as good as the 808 if not better since it has OIS, more ram, a faster CPU and optics which are of the same quality. I personally don't think any component in the 1020's camera module causes it to fall short of the 808, since the N8 falls short of the 1020's better components and still manages to compete with the 808. So why shouldn't the class of 2013 ?
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 23:41:49
Edit :
Quote
Your thinking is logical !
But remember N8 and 808 use image sensors
Toshiba, while Lumia 920, Lumia 925, Lumia 928 and Lumia 1020 use image sensors manufactured by
Sony !
I dunno... Maybe that explains something !
Mainly because of the N8 is better than the 1020 (at least currently) !!!
--
Posted: 2013-09-26 23:52:37
Edit :
Quote
But I don't think it is.
I actually think the 1020 has the most potential out of the three of them in the camera department to take the best pictures out of all three. The N8 which I own is brilliant, but im under no illusion 41mp and better optics will beat it hands down.
The 1020 has the hardware, its the software which is currently letting it down.. slightly imo..
--
Posted: 2013-09-27 00:25:31
Edit :
Quote
On 2013-09-26 23:41:49, etaab wrote:
Ive never had a problem with WB on my N8. Strange.
At certain conditions, especially with flash on, the N8 used to struggle hitting the correct WB on auto.
At one case, I remember I also posted the photos on Esato, with flash on, no matter what WB I chose the N8 kept missing the WB to an extent that it displayed my curtain all green while it's straight blue.
I had to turn the flash off, and choose a certain WB in order for the phone to get it right.
But these are rare and harsh scenarios.. Not like it did it everywhere.
Like ive said, and we do seem to be going round in circles, they need to allow the 1020 to have a neutral option via an app update just like Dinning thinks.
The Pro camera app is what powers the 1020's camera. All they need do is update it to make it as good as the 808 if not better since it has OIS, more ram, a faster CPU and optics which are of the same quality. I personally don't think any component in the 1020's camera module causes it to fall short of the 808, since the N8 falls short of the 1020's better components and still manages to compete with the 808. So why shouldn't the class of 2013 ?
What ultimately will solve the problem is obviously allowing more than processing algorithms as options for the end users.
And here is where the personal preferences go. To say that one prefers 808's output to 1020 is a personal preference same as another claims the total opposite.
But to claim that the 1020 is a less capable camera is simply against the facts. As simple as that.
Giving three options would be the best scenario.
Some prefer standard, some prefer the aggressive approach, and some neutral output in order to fiddle with it later or even leave it as it is.
At the moment, although the 1020 makes other current high-end look punchy with aggressive post-processing, it still shows clear oversharpening artifacts at 1:1 zoom. And also the colors are still pushed beyond the standard levels.
And to mistake those artifacts for natural sensor noise is ignorance (Nokia could have easily removed all noise and applied less sharpening and delivered exact same soft results as the 808!). Same as claiming that those colors make a camera less capable! Some prefer it this way and the 808 in their point of view then would be incapable. It goes both way.
This is the point I'm trying to make. To draw the lines between personal preferences and technological facts.
And you seem to agree with me on this point. So why going in circles? It seems pretty clear to me.
--
Posted: 2013-09-27 01:45:41
Edit :
Quote
New Topic
Reply
