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Compression is primarely used to reduce the size of pictures, not to "fix" noise introduced by a camera sensor. The noise is fixed by a noise filter.
Both actions can however add to the picture fuzziness (in both cases data has been lost). You can read more about noise in the link below.

http://www.photoxels.com/tutorial_noise.html




[ This Message was edited by: Arne Anka on 2007-07-31 14:50 ]
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Posted: 2007-07-31 15:30:52
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O.K. I thought I would run around the house and just take a couple of random shots with a W800 (2mp) and a K800 (3mp) to demonstrate how often the picture quality is bad on the K800. No prep - just take a couple of quick shots like you would on any day. If this doesn't open your eyes to how bad the K800 is nothing will.

The first shot is nothing more than a set of Venetian blinds. View both versions at "actual size" Notice how bad the blinds look in the K800 photo - a bit like someone took a hack saw to them. Zoom in all you like on the W800 photo and you can't make it look as bad as the K800 image.

W800: http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/viewfullsize.php?id=6432

K800: http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/viewfullsize.php?id=6431

The next photo is just a wall clock taken at night. Again view both at "actual size". Now, if you can't see just how bad the K800 has rendered the edges on the clock, the hands the in circle and the numbers when compared to the W800 shot you have got to be in need of glasses. Also, where's all the detail gone in the K800 photo? The W800 has picked up far more details. What's worse, I only need one attempt to get the W800 shot - the k800 took a few goes and still resulted in a crappy shot.

W800: http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/viewfullsize.php?id=6430

K800: http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/viewfullsize.php?id=6429

Now, to those professional reviewers I have to ask - How on earth did you come to the conclusion that the K800 was a class leading camera phone?

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Posted: 2007-07-31 15:49:57
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Yep. They call it Chevrolet Lumina here in the Middle East. But it's the same, they just move the steering wheel to the left side. (And leave the hand brake on the right side, for some odd reason...)
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Posted: 2007-07-31 20:15:37
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The 3.2 mega pixel's quoted by Sony Ericsson & Cyber-shot branding on the phone, they fall for it every time.

Like ive said before, never rated the K800I as having a decent camera.

I just hope the mega pixel race between the phone companies doesn't ruin the K850I's picture taking ability & quality.

No point having loads of mp to brag about if the phone cant take a decent picture to start with.

[ This Message was edited by: PowerLee on 2007-07-31 21:41 ]
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Posted: 2007-07-31 22:23:37
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I wasn't saying it was used intentionally to fix the noise, just that it is a side effect of high compression.
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Posted: 2007-08-01 00:15:47
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mongoose, I've noticed something really strange about this business. I was noticing the jagged edges as you noticed them - but no where as extreme as your examples. Much less noticeable and "acceptable"

Then I noticed when I first view some images (I use ACDSee), it has extremely jagged edges, then when I zoomed out and then in again, the jaggedness disappears. I didn't resave the image at all so it's not being smoothed out by compression.

This has never happend with any images from other sources, which leads me to think there is a feature of the jpeg algorithm of K800 that befuddles some imaging programs in certain conditions.

See this example below, where I screen captured an image opened in acdsee, then zoomed out then in again, followed by another screen capture.

On the left is the image as it appear when first opened, on the right is the image as it appears on any subsequent openings. (part of the screen captures cropped to fit without resizing)

very strange!




both captures are of the EXACT same image with no post processing on either. I don't know what this behaviour means exactly, but I thought it worth mentioning.

But disregardingthat strange business for a moment, I've just been out taking photos, and have been comparing against my K750 pics, and from my analysis so far, the K750 pics also have jagged edges but not as prominent ad the K800. I could only judge the K800 jaggedness to be slightly more evident than the K800 pics. The examples you have given seem to be more extreme than those I've been able to produce.

for example here's a beemer 4wd, virtually no jaggedness visible at 1:1


and this beemer sedan, some jaggedness but not excessive in my view:


_________________
File System Tweaks for the K750 K750 Tricks

[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-08-01 05:33 ]
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Posted: 2007-08-01 06:16:59
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Very strange indeed. I think it was just some glitch with Acdsee. I've tried several Image editors/viewers and the effect is always the same. The effect can even be seen on the K800's own screen by just zooming in on an image.

I went out at lunch today and took pictures in a park. Everything bar landscapes of the far off horizon show the effect. e.g. The slide on a kids playground looks like a cheese grater. What's worse is that the effect is still visible if you drop to 2mp - although not as much.
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Posted: 2007-08-01 06:47:30
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hmmm, I wonder if it is a fault with your camera mongoose? Or maybe earlier firmware versions? What firmware are you on?

I believe you are getting definite problems, but I just can't seem to reproduce the severity on my own K800.

regarding acdsee, I'm willing to admit it may be a weird acdsee thing, but why only with K800 pics? I have viewed many thousands of K750 photos (about 8000-9000 in total), as well as numerous other digital camera images, and have never had this occur until the K800, which leads me to think there is some kind of bug in K800 jpeg compression - if we could access raw K800 images, they may not have the jaggedness at all! Or maybe as you say it's completely unrelated issue. I just thought it odd.




_________________
File System Tweaks for the K750 K750 Tricks

[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-08-01 05:54 ]
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Posted: 2007-08-01 06:49:29
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Nope no glitch. If you notice when you first go into the gallery on the K790/800 a large 3mp image taken by the phone is blurry. It takes roughly 3 seconds for it to 'clear' and no more blurriness. what is going on here?
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Posted: 2007-08-01 08:53:47
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I'm on R1kG001. It's not a fault with my camera - I'm sure of that. Have a look at the links I provided on the bottom of the first page of this thread - they're from a review site. The examples I have posted here are extreme examples to point out the fault. I actually do have some some good shots that are not affected. Here's a couple more suggestions for your testing - a macro shot of an analogue watch comes out pretty bad. Try a shot of tree with lots of fine branches that has shed it's leaves. Try a macro shot of a bottlebrush flower - For non australians, that's a native flower here. Try anything with fine hairs - Cats whiskers turn into staircases.
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Posted: 2007-08-01 08:55:57
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