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On 2008-07-24 18:32:24, m.h Croatia wrote:
QVGA, I wouldn`t call k750, w800 and k800 failures at all - all this phones were top-of-the-class at their time.
top of the class and top of the line are very very different.
W900 was a radical designed phone, huge screen with QVGA res. 3D accelerator and 30FPS QVGA recording.
K750 was just 2.0MP AF. Nothing else was top of the line.
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Posted: 2008-07-24 18:39:21
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On 2008-07-24 10:52:35, makbil wrote:
@carkitter, where SE is really loosing big time is in the stability and functionality of their phones. Remember that until R5 on P990 there was always the possibility that the phone could restart when receiving a call. This is just not acceptable and eventually word got around. Firmware issues have plagued most SE phones in the past 2 years. Now, if people pay premium amounts for a device - remember SE phones are not cheap at all - they expect it to work with all functions as advertised.
Unlike you, I don't think SE can turn things around soon. They need some time to reorganize properly and start most things from scratch - G900 still has P990 closed flip mode files lurking among its files. If they fail, when SF becomes available they stand no chance against their competitors.
I purposely stay away from commenting on Symbian models in the
lineup as 1) they don't appeal to me which means 2) I don't know alot about them and finally 3) alot of people have trouble with them which is one of the reasons they don't appeal to me.
As I have said in previous posts in other threads,
is a niche market manufacturer (a best market penetration of 12%) and smart phones is the smallest niche
operates in. I'm pleased that with the P800 they were able to make a great impact and appeal to many advanced users but to then sink back into the mass of devices from larger and better resourced companies is sad but not surprising. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight UIQ was doomed to be swamped by the Open-source Symbian Foundation and the rampant S60 platform and perhaps the problems of the p910/P990 were symptomatic of that. As I say, I am not expert on this and try to stay away from this area of
's performance.
On 2008-07-24 12:19:59, Dogmann wrote:
@Carkitter
Sorry but despite what you think SE really are not as on track as you say for instance you say
"Mobile Internet browsing is an important feature moving forward and have acknowledged this with models like Z770/Z780 and the G-series and yet Wifi has been left out of almost all these models"
So how come only two of those devices have HSDPA which is today a basic addition for fast browsing and gives an enhanced Web experience to the user. What's even worse is the two smart phones are the ones that are missing it which makes no sense at all. The G series has only attracted new smart phone users from SE dumb phones as most if not all serious smart phone and Web users expect HSDPA in their device mid 2008.
Sorry Dogmann but you missed the point.
I'm talking about Wifi in feature phones, you're talking about HSDPA in smart phones. Please re-read the passage and take off your blinkers.
On 2008-07-24 12:19:59, Dogmann wrote:
It's really obvious to all that despite what SE and their fans say SE are failing to deliver what most users want. The A200 platform in the K850 launched just like the P990 in a not fit for sale state. Users were the Beta testers and really didn't appreciate it either many as much as they tried to live with it they gave up and chose another device and not one from SE either. Which is why so many users have had multiple units before many decided to get a N82 instead. All those returned units cost SE big time both by annoying the users and also worse the Networks including the financial cost to. Still 10 months on and there is still problems and people wonder why SE are dropping like a stone. Hardly surprising then that we then see some SE models not being carried by a network the P1 was carried by just one UK network SE's one and only flagship smart phone available from just one Network just how pathetic is that.
I agree with you here:
"It's really obvious to all that despite what SE and their fans say, SE are failing to deliver what most users want."
But we differ because you think
are losing repeat business from dissatisfied customers, while I say thay
are not gaining new customers because those customers are not attracted to
phones because they lack certain 'must-have' features.
Your comments are emotive and superficial and lack any proof such as customer satisfaction surveys or figures on returns, or press statements from networks stating "Never again will we sell those useless SE handsets".
My comments are based on my analysis, rightly or wrongly, of
's press statements, the new products that are hitting the market with success such as the iphone 3G (3m sold in three days) N95 wide acceptance and recieving awards, and the fact that free wifi is available in Universities (I'm writing this from a university) and that low cost/subsidised products services and Open-Source platrforms are acknowlegded as the best marketing model at present and in the future. This is why IMO
is seeing market growth leaving it behind, not disgruntled customers.
_________________
My V640i Review
Have you voted yet? ESATO AWARDS 2008![ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-07-25 02:39 ]
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Posted: 2008-07-25 03:35:02
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@QVGA,
what you have stated makes sense? se is scared to make another s700i/w900i. though these phones were super in all respects & they brought a lot of praise for se but not much money.
it's like making a big budget movie which wins awards at cannes/bafta/oscars but does not do well in cinemas.
@carkitter,
wi-fi is mostly a pre-dominant trait of smartphones/symbian phones. if you choose to, "purposely stay away from commenting on symbian models" then you should refrain from commenting on se's implementation of wi-fi as well.
btw, horses wear blinkers & not dogs, lol.
enjoy your dumbphones & lol, happy "passage" writing.
i hate repeating myself but i can't help it, you sure are funny. where can i vote for most hilarious posts on esato???
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Posted: 2008-07-25 05:04:55
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@ftyk
C905 has Wifi and is not a UIQ or WM device.
will see more sales success IMO if they continue this trend.
Why am I not surprised to see you lurking here amongst the other nay-sayers and prophets of doom? Get a life.
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Posted: 2008-07-25 06:58:41
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@carkitter,
i so expected you to make such a ridiculous exception.
i wrote : "wi-fi is mostly a pre-dominant trait of smartphones/symbian phones."
can you see the "mostly" ???
or is it time to upgrade your reading glasses ???
i can see now why you have only dumbphones...lol.
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Posted: 2008-07-25 07:52:36
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@carkitter
Whilst you take the information from SE's PR which is a joke all by itself and reach your conclusions. I make my assumptions from SE's sales and market share drops which shows exactly what the whole market thinks of SE. Not what SE's spin machine tries to say and seems to believe.
The largest growing market in phones at the moment is smart phones although they are mainly Multimedia smart phones. SE's total lack of offerings in this sector is just one of the things that is hurting them so badly, especially when their non smart phones are as expensive if not more then some of their rivals Multimedia smart phones.
In this Web and Media generation these small screens being described as large on SE devices is yet another factor that detracts from SE. Again as their rivals offer larger screen's for the same or less money. SE expects users to pay a premium for the SE name not what the phones consist off, most consumers go for the best spec's for their money not an SE badge that doesn't mean as much as it used to.
The evidence of all the above is plain to see just how much further do SE need to fall before even SE realise the problem never mind SE fans. They only got 4th back not due to their brilliance but because Moto are still doing even worse.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-07-25 11:33 ]
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Posted: 2008-07-25 12:32:03
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They have definitely lost market share and mind share, more and more shops are carrying Samsung phones while SE phones are harder to find (Nokia is everywhere of course).
The bulk of mobile users will buy a phone based on the marketing hype and specs on paper, they won't upgrade their firmware and if they find bugs in the phone they'll get rid of it and avoid the brand.
Since Nokia phones are considered to be more reliable (better build quality) they have a higher resale price. So another reason for a new buyer to avoid trying out non-Nokia phones.
Since returning a phone is not an option here, even people who frequent forums like these will stay away from potentially buggy phones. Heck, I couldn't bring myself to buy a K850 after reading that so many people were facing problems because I would have been stuck with it.
SE have to realize what they're up against and release some killer products (i.e. clearly better in every way but at a competitive price) that shock their competitors (like AMD did with Radeon 4xxx GPUs and forced Nvidia to drastically cut prices of their products). That's the only way they'll start to win back customers.
Releasing products that have intentionally crippled functionality or going back on announced features isn't going to help them.
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Posted: 2008-07-25 13:14:10
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On 2008-07-25 13:14:10, kreacher wrote:
They have definitely lost market share and mind share, more and more shops are carrying Samsung phones while SE phones are harder to find (Nokia is everywhere of course).
The bulk of mobile users will buy a phone based on the marketing hype and specs on paper, they won't upgrade their firmware and if they find bugs in the phone they'll get rid of it and avoid the brand.
Since Nokia phones are considered to be more reliable (better build quality) they have a higher resale price. So another reason for a new buyer to avoid trying out non-Nokia phones.
Since returning a phone is not an option here, even people who frequent forums like these will stay away from potentially buggy phones. Heck, I couldn't bring myself to buy a K850 after reading that so many people were facing problems because I would have been stuck with it.
SE have to realize what they're up against and release some killer products (i.e. clearly better in every way but at a competitive price) that shock their competitors (like AMD did with Radeon 4xxx GPUs and forced Nvidia to drastically cut prices of their products). That's the only way they'll start to win back customers.
Releasing products that have intentionally crippled functionality or going back on announced features isn't going to help them.
Spot on there kreacher!
Shock the competition and the market they desperately need to.To me this reminds me of the times when Ericsson decided to stop their cellphone business, Ericsson phones started becoming less of a sight in shops which is starting to happen with a lot of carriers carrying less SE phones.
They need to turn this around urgently.
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Posted: 2008-07-25 13:40:14
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On 2008-07-25 03:35:02, carkitter wrote:
But we differ because you think
are losing repeat business from dissatisfied customers, while I say thay
are not gaining new customers because those customers are not attracted to
phones because they lack certain 'must-have' features.
Your comments are emotive and superficial and lack any proof
Surely the proof is all over Esato, with once loyal SE customers and "fans" posting in threads like this? Dogmann was once a repeat SE customer, and so was I - I bought E/SE every year since my T28s in 2001. I also encouraged others to do the same, and like many of us was a walking billboard for the company.
Last year I almost slept-walked into a new P1, but ended up with an HTC handset instead, partly because my preferred network didn't stock the P1 (due to the high returns of recent UIQ phones) and partly because when it came down to it, the P1 simply couldn't compete on any level with the competing handset I was being offered, and my strained brand loyalty finally evaporated. I know I'm not the only former SE zealot to do the same thing - in fact, I'm part of quite a trend, and that trend is being reflected in SE's current performance.
I've thoroughly enjoyed having a really leading edge handset for the past nine months (my first probably since the P800), and although I'm starting to think about my next upgrade, I've absolutely no interest in anything SE have to offer - they literally have nothing on the market that begins to compare with my almost year-old phone.
At the same time, I've seen my wife's W910 lose all her text messages, and gradually fall apart over the same period - proving that even their relatively simple feature phones are an embarrassment. Naturally, her repeat business this year has most definitely been lost.
It's especially sad because out of loyalty to those great old phones of old, I'd still like to buy SE - but I just have no faith in them to deliver anything worthwhile any more. SE are not the company they once were (or originated from), and their products now trail behind the competition in every way.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-07-25 14:17 ]
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Posted: 2008-07-25 15:07:41
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Not sure if anyone noticed but i used to have a W900i on Vodafone some years back. What i noticed with that phone was it had the smoothest view finder of any camera phone i seen from SE. Think its cos video had 30fps but it was so smooth and great no lag when panning around. Not seen that since.
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Posted: 2008-07-25 17:21:00
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