News Forum Phone database

> New Topic
> Reply
< Esato Forum Index > Sony Ericsson / Sony > General > Gizmodo verdict on dumbphones and the W995. Bookmark topic



Like it has been pointed out, it's just a matter of quoting from the market share percentages published a few months ago.

If Apple had more than one phone, then all they hype they generate would evaporate. it's as simple as that. Nokia updated the N85 to the N86 and it gets a footnote in the blogs. The fruitphone just about catches up to 2007 tech and we have pages upon pages of raving ecstasy. As Se_Dude said, if it wasn't for the carrier subsidies, they wouldn't sell anywhere close to that number. Look at Apple's computer sales: They are falling and there are no subsidies to back them up:

http://www.businessinsider.co[....]d-be-worse-this-quarter-2009-5

BTW, AAPL stock is actually inching downward since the WWDC after a huge rally in anticipation to the event. Shouldn't it be exploding if the investors were enthralled by the announcements?

Unless and until Apple spins the mobile phone division off into a seperate company, there is no point in comparing their profits with that of dedicated mobile phone manufacturers. We are just recovering from a massive recession that saw even Nokia get their profits decimated by 90%.( They are not in the losses because they have mastered the art of making low end phones really, really cheap). Apple on the other hand has the massive success of the iPods to back them up.



And how did you arrive at the conclusion that changing the UI would magically wipe away all of SE's problems overnight? You're just projecting your wishlist on to a situation that has a lot more to it that 12x3 grids of icons.



This deserves a thread of its own. Anyway, as per popular opinion,they are making the right steps to get out of the predicament; no matter what your personal opinion may be.



It is VERY relevant here. You are comparing Milli Vanilli to the Claptons and the Dylans of the industry. They are new and they have all the flash. The others are a bit old and rusty. But unless and until Apple shows constant innovation and staying power, I wouldn't count on them as the yardstick of anything.

Also, SE is NOWHERE near the condition MOTO is in. Moto has lost the will to live. Nothing worthwhile is coming out of their R&D anymore. SE on the other hand has unveiled some phones that have got people talking. They are also taking steps to provide content of their own. Also, as many members would point out, SE is still a very popular brandname in many countries. It's not surprising to see them as #2 or #3 in many places. The reason Samsung and LG leapfrogged them (In real world. Not on the internet where paper spec maniacs argue over theoritical superiority) is because they sell kabillions of CDMA phones (Something SE doesn't do) and excellet tie ups with carriers to offer contract deals (Again, something SE is very weak at).
--
Posted: 2009-06-10 19:33:45
Edit : Quote


@Boinng
I think it's too risky for a UI revamp at this juncture because it might backfire and they might lose customers that value the ui's simplicity and familliarity. It happened to me recently and i almost stopped subscribing to a design software that recently had a ui overhaul. i was pissed and still not impressed, and this could very well be the case for SE. If they decide to eventually do this, they will need to spend significant resources in developing something that echoes perfection
--
Posted: 2009-06-11 02:00:41
Edit : Quote




I'm sorry but this paragraph is just nonsense. For starters of course the carrier subsidies help, as they do for ALL phones. How many of the millions of Nokias and SE's out there have been literally given away by the networks over the years? How many "loyal" customers of Nokia and SE are simply used to getting them free on upgrade year in, year out? Neither brand would be anywhere without the massive subsidisation they've received from networks particularly in Europe over the last decade or so.

Why would the "hype" over Apple's phones evaporate if they had more than one model? Because Nokia have more than one model and they don't get the hype, is that genuinely your logic? Nokia are also Finnish, would Apple become a Finnish company if they launched another phone? That supposition is no stranger than yours.

Why on earth should we look at Apple's computer sales when they have literally no correlation to anything we're talking about here? Shock - in the middle of a recession people don't buy as many computers - so what? What does that tell us about the user interfaces of mobile phones exactly?



Your mistake is in believing that I care about Apple's stock performance, or even that the success or otherwise of the 3G S will prove or disprove this argument. Maybe Apple have made a terrible error in not updating the iPhone more substantially, maybe the 3G S won't sell, but if it doesn't - doesn't that again underline the fact that companies need to innovate more in the mobile space? If the 3G S isn't innovative enough anymore after two previous generations of iPhone, what possible chance does SE's huge range of refreshed 2002 designs have?



Nice point, well made, except nobody was comparing Apple's profits with anyone else, we were talking about the growing share of the mobile market by Apple and other more dynamic entrants such as Samsung and LG, and the declining share of SE in the face of that. This isn't about how many computers or ipods Apple sell, in fact it's not necessarily about Apple at all, it's about the changing demands of consumers and the way in which SE, with it's continual losses, is failing to adapt to that. Enter the W995.



My wishlist? What wishlist? All I'm doing is coming to the same conclusion as the Gizmodo article - SE's UI is outdated, and that's part of the reason they're losing market share (not to mention mindshare) while others with more innovative and original designs are on the up. It's not a particularly controversial view, I just don't think you want to admit that anything's wrong in what SE have been doing...



In other words, you don't want to deal with it, you just want to tell me I'm wrong. I'm not wrong.
--
Posted: 2009-06-11 12:15:36
Edit : Quote


Nice bit of selective reading there. Either you didn't pay attention to the parts that warranted attention or you didn't want to. I'll try to find some logic in your post non linearly.




...which means you didn't read this:



You wanna discuss this in full stretch? Start another thread. I'll be around.



Eh, no.
Apple's biggest market is USA, where neither Nokia nor SE have competing levels of subsidies for their high end phones. Nowhere else in the world has the iPhone sold such monumental numbers, IIRC. Look at countries where Apple offered the iPhone at a truer price: Countries like India, where N95s and C905s sell very well:

Apple is nowhere in sight.

Get your comprehension skills in order and read things as they were typed. Please.



...which means you didn't read this:


Now read that in co-relation with the part about iPhones selling well because of subsidies.



Nobody denied that. My point was that a change of UI is not the answer to that problem. Did you miss the Satio and Aino announcements? How about the new Xperia and the upcoming Android phones? Do they seem like the same old to you? If they do, I'm sorry; I can't help you.



Which means that you're just a fanboy commenting about how companies should run their business without actually understanding how the system works. My bad. I shouldn't have bothered.



Ok, that just made my head hurt. I'm out of this one. Toodles.

--
Posted: 2009-06-11 15:01:11
Edit : Quote




That's coming from the poster that entered this topic by responding to one short line of a four paragraph post, while ignoring every other point made by me or anyone else. Ironic.



So SE are failing because they don't do CDMA phones, and because the carriers don't like them anymore. For some reason. And those are the only two theories you'll tolerate, but you don't want to talk about them right now.

Righto.

Here's me naively thinking it might be something to do with their product.



Wait - you're telling me that Apple have sold more of their extremely expensive premium phone in countries where the price was subsidised by the networks. In countries where it's not subsidised and is just plain expensive, cheaper phones are easier to sell.

My god, you're right! The W995 interface is fine after all!



You're mistaken, I read every word of your post, I just don't agree that a discussion on Apple's computer sales is (a) in anyway relevant to this topic, or (b) justifies a discussion on subsidy. The housing market is dropping, houses aren't subsidised either, what does that prove in regard to the success or failure of SE's user interface? Nothing at all.



So what are you saying - a change of UI is not the answer to the problem, but look, have I seen that SE are changing the UI in answer to the problem? Well yes, as it happens I have seen that, but the thing is the only phone you've mentioned there that's actually on the market is the Xperia X1. The "new UI" of the X1 was Windows Mobile 6.1, probably the oldest and least popular smartphone UI (even amongst its own users) that they could have possibly chosen. Big success, was it?

The Aino is a step in the right direction, as noted in this topic already. The Satio is less interesting in some ways - I don't have high hopes for S60 or Symbian in the long term, but time will tell. As for Android, the sooner the better.



Way to go missing the point. Again.



I think you probably need to re-read this topic.

--
Posted: 2009-06-11 15:41:05
Edit : Quote


Guys, we know SE's falling market share over the past few quarters can not be pinned down to SE just using a 'quirky' UI.

Generally, the industry is in agreement that it is a combination of factors; namely a lack of handsets, the demise of UIQ (we've seen the cancelled prototypes), the lack of demand globally (most estimate the global market to shrink by 10% this year) and quality issues on key handsets in key markets (Europe).

Samsung has gained market share in Europe and has been doing for a while. Some would argue that Samsung's homegrown UI is one of the worst on the market, so if UI was that much of an important factor then Samsung wouldn't be as successful as it is.

I just think that SE is in the middle of a big step-change but they are moving in the right direction. Dropping a UI that is well regarded by most is not the answer. I think Android is the answer for their high end multimedia phones but they should definitely keep their dumbphone UI.
--
Posted: 2009-06-11 16:04:48
Edit : Quote


@Boinng

Lol.


My words are here:







Your comprehension is here:




Carry on.

--
Posted: 2009-06-11 16:06:13
Edit : Quote


Even that i am a big fan of Sony and Sony Ericsson i still love the iPhone,i think that everyone that like technique loves the iPhone,pity Sony Ericsson was not the one to make it.
my next phone will still be Sony Ericsson cos the iPhone does not have stereo bluetooth and the camera is bad,but if it had 8MP/12.1MP camera and bluetooth i will not think about SE anymore
--
Posted: 2009-06-11 16:52:15
Edit : Quote


I'll be stoned for pointing this out, but both the current iPhone 3G and new iPhone 3G S will have stereo bluetooth by this time next week - it's coming in the free OS update on June 17th.

The 3G S has a better camera too, with lots of optical improvements like touch-to-autofocus and macro, and VGA video recording at 30fps. But the sensor is only 3MP, not 8 or 12, so horses for courses.

--
Posted: 2009-06-11 17:14:45
Edit : Quote

---

New Topic   Reply

Forum Index