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@mib1800

I would agree with you in saying that Nokia does have an edge over SE, as I said in my previous post, but I think that you are perhaps placing too much emphasis upon the Symbian mobiles Nokia is releasing. As good as they may be one has to remember the fact that many people are not looking for a mobile with such advanced features, indeed many people look for a basic device.

SE faces many problems, one of the biggest being how to expand successfully into the low-end market and keep sych customers loyal; as you have quite rightly pointed out. One of the biggest obstacles any company faces in this respect is that there are so many people familiar with Nokia's operating system and those who buy low-end phones are typically those who are not looking for anything too complicated or different than that, which they are used to.

We are on the threshold of 3G and, in my opinion, this will be the biggest opportunity for Nokia's rivals to increase their market share. We have already seen some tenative forays into the 3G market by several manufacturers, some better than others. Whichever manufacturers can release the most appealling 3G mobiles first, in terms of both functionality and aesthetic appeal, stand a very good chance of being able to dominate the 3G market an therefore the future mobile phone market as a result of familiarity amongst customers.
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Posted: 2004-09-25 01:06:57
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@scotsboyuk:

in fact with 3G, it is more crucial to have an customisable O/S. 3G provides the backbone of high-speed data transfer. So there are huge opportunities for 3rd party applications (in areas of entertainment, business and leisure)

just compare the V800 and 6630. they are both 3G but the 6630 is more capable (except for design flaw of video conferencing). Nokia will surely come out very soon with another that can do that - they only need to repackage again maybe into a clamshell.

so nothing has changed in 3G arena.


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Posted: 2004-09-25 02:55:50
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@mib1800

As I said, I believe 3G to be an opportunity for Nokia's competitors to gain ground. Nokia does not yet have any 3G mobiles capable of setting a standard for others. I think that we shall see a great deol more competition than ever before. 3G phones don't need to be Symbian to offer consumers the functions they are looking for and I think we shall see this over the coming months.
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Posted: 2004-09-25 04:52:00
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face it guys nokia is on the top 10 brands of everything in the world i think it was #7..while SE is not even on the top 100 list. Nokia is just a big bully that is hard to shove off. Another reason why Nokia is better than SE is the reason that SE is throwing every bit of technology at nokia and it doesnt even budge nokia. Nokia is a dormant giant for now. believe me when they throw a punch it would really hurt the others. if SE could make symbian 60 compatible phones with nokia's programs that would hit nokia big where it hurts.
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Posted: 2004-09-25 05:25:54
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@oliblurr:

unfortunately SE (due to proud tradition) would not adopt series 60. instead they go and do UIQ3. this platform is not compatible with series 60 and UIQ on the P** series.

so where does this take SE even if they did come out with a cheaper UIQ3 smartphone. imo, no where. it is dead in the water without software support.

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Posted: 2004-09-25 08:03:49
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don't all manufacturers bring out most phones with their own UI? I believe so.

Does this give them any sort of significant disadvantage? i believe not.
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Posted: 2004-09-25 15:05:59
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As I said before, SE are a relatively small company, to expect them to unseat Nokia is being somewhat unrealistic. Nokia's position is almost unapproachable, but that can change.

Symbian Series 60 smartphones from Nokia might very well sell well, but, as I said previously, it isn't everyone who wants such a device, nor will Nokia have a lack of competitors. Many manufacturers have begun releasing smartphones, some of them Series 60, and Nokia will need to be very careful to avoid being drawn into a situation where it has to fight on many fronts in order to stay, at the very least, on par with its rivals.

3G is also going to play a very important role in shaping the future of the mobile industry. Any manufacturer, which does not release some decent handsets in the initial phases of 3G risks being left behind as brand recognition may change amongst customers. Nokia, in my opinion, hasn't had the best start in the 3G market; of the initial ten 3G handsets Vodafone will use for their consumer 3G network, only one is from Nokia, two are from SE and the others are from various other manufacturers including; LG, Samsung and Motorola. This isn't quite the level of involvement that I would expect from the world's leading mobile phone manufacturer.

I don't think anyone can question that Noki has an 'edge' over SE at the moment, but I do seriously believe that Nokia will come under a great deal of pressure as the 3G market expands, not just from SE of course.
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Posted: 2004-09-25 15:24:00
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@scotsboyuk

you got a point that not everyone needs a smartphone. BUT if one is available at about the same price as your mid-range general phone, then most people would ask why not?

smartphone is the faster growing segment (at least twice the pace of general phone segment). and nokia is the major beneficiary. i think 3G and smartphone are not mutually exclusive. in fact, with 3G a customisable O/S (like symbian) is critical.

i think the issue here is why SE is not adopting series60. other manufacturers are. nokia will surely face some competition from series60 from other manufacturers. hey, that is good because we have more choices. if SE comes out with a series60, many (incl. myself) would seriously consider switching.


[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2004-09-26 04:48 ]
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Posted: 2004-09-26 05:43:43
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Yikes, I took my time to read through this thread.

I want to start with, mobile market is not only about symbian OS and downloadable programme as some people in here may believe. Majority of all users want a phone with appealing look and a lot of features for an affordable price and Nokia failed so bad here. I have worked in Vodafone store here in my city and talked with other salesmen about Nokia's design and we all agree that Nokia are making odd (ugly in my opinion) looking phones nowadays. Most people who buy phones today don't even buy the cheapest or near that. They want something which has a good display, poly ringtones, built-in camera and of course good design etc. for an affordable price. Where were Nokia?. Think of SE T610 and the crew at Nokia shiver, why? simply because they kept producing their plastic handsets which looked like the last generation phone with a colour display of only 4096 colours and 4 channels poly tones. Nokia simply underestamated us customers and that is why they lost many per cent of the market share last year. Nokia are repeating the same mistake in 3G. Yes they are doing the same thing again, unbelievable how they can repeat the same thing. When you are talking about 3G handsets, you think of video conference and "high" speed wapping, Nokia fails in the most important thing here. Guess which one. Seems like Nokia don't care at all about first generation 3G handsets while they are preparing themselves for the second generation handsets. Back to GSM again. Did you know that Nokia are going to release clamshells very soon? How come they are doing this now? clamshell design is defintely not a new design invention and we all know that by just thinking of Samsung and Sharp. Regarding those handsets they are going release, they all weight more than any clamshells handsets on GSM market, however I must say that they look very appealing. I think Nokia just realized that far from all people want to have a candybar mobile. Nokia try to catch up not only in terms of design but also technologically. They are still behind. Say edge and I say what? We don't have edge in Scandinavia nor do Germany offer it and I don't think edge exist in UK or France either. If it happen to exist then it's just because 3G does not exist there. Edge is just a compliment to 3G for big areas with small population where it is not profitable to expand, at least it will be like that in Sweden. Nokia and its display is a sad story. This is another part where Nokia is playing catch up to other companies. Other companies are offering 262k colour display with high resolution and Nokia are still stuck with 65k at low resolution.

I had enough for now but just a few more lines before I stop.
Nokia does not have an edge above Sony Ericsson techincally.
Nokia will face really hard competition when second generation 3G handsets arrives. Mobile market is a growing market with many companies in business and Nokia is struggling hard to keep 30% of the market. They had a goal to reach 40& barrier but that will never happen. Sony Ericsson is not a major concern to Nokia but Samsung, Motorola and Siemens are three big threats to Nokia.
You guys should know why Nokia doesn't exist on the Japanese and South Korean market, lack of technical knowledge is the answer.

Sorry for lack of sentece structure but it was just to much to write.

[ This Message was edited by: McKinley on 2004-09-26 12:26 ]
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Posted: 2004-09-26 13:22:13
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@mckinley:

your point on design is subjective matter. If u r no fans of Nokia, u would not like their design and vice-versa. Nokia do bring out bad designs and so does every other manufacturer incl SE.

Nokia missed out on the clamshell design. and samsung gained from this. everyone knows this.

Nokia is definitely lacking in the screen department. but their smartphone screen is certainly not lacking at all.

they are definitely ahead in memory card slot support. They managed even to have it in a small form factor phone like 6230. SE and Samung dont have any.

We dont even need to mention RF. Nokia hv perfected the internal antenna.

On the smartphone front, they are obviously way ahead of the rest. Nokia has managed to put an O/S into a phone which does not weight a ton and sized like a brick.

For 3G, i think 6630 is a very commendable effort because it is a Symbian and it is smaller and lighter than most of the others.

and Nokia hv stabilised their market share in Q2. in fact it is an increase over Q1.

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Posted: 2004-09-26 14:16:51
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