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@scotsboyuk
let me extract this to save place instead of quoting..
1. Expert ranking
2. Mutual members ranking
3. Mutual thread ranking
1. Then we would have a real class-community, though it would provide some sort of a higher professionality of this forum. But itīs arguable whether this is intended.
2. I guess the mods wouldnīt appreciate that for beeing more work to delete senseless rankings, let alone the 'ranking fights' which I guess could (not must!) been arised through this.
3. This would of course be a great help - but itīs nothing more than just another form of faq - which are already provided in a voluminous number but seldom used (and Iīll bet there would be a lot people interested in having their thread ranked as high as possible).
I guess (hope?!) itīs ok the way it is - the number of posts CAN give you a slight idea of how trustworthy a member or its answer is, and fortunately weīre not dealing with people posting wrong answers intentionally. But Iīm looking forward to your reply..
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:04:12
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@scotty
'Ello mucker!
Those are a couple of good ideas - I guess the integrity of those doing the rating is quite important though. In the absence of such an improved (and possibly more complicated - I don't know how it works on other forums [forae?! - it's been a while...], I mainly stick to this forum) system, I would advocate keeping the pot counts. I absolutely agree that it is a very flawed method of differentiating between members, but the point that some method is better than no method is an important one.
I barely remember what it was like when I was new here, but I would offer the following as an example. I just read a thread a few minutes ago (so eroded is my memory that I can't even remember which one) where a newish member has asked a question which has been answered incorrectly by one user, and then correctly by masseur. Now, any of us would generally have an idea who the reliable sources around here are, but how does the new member know who to listen to?
The other slight issue I have with self-proclaimed expertise is that there are an awful lot of members (mostly, incidentally, at the newer end of the membership spectrum) who seem to answer questions definitively even though their opinion is just that.... opinion, and based on nothing more. I would prefer a system where the community judges the credentials of a particular member/thread (as Scots also suggested) than one where members rate themselves.
Dave
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:07:57
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Well I was never daunted when I joined the forums :-) i was welcomed by the members
This message was posted from a WAP device
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:09:52
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1. I don't think it would create a class structure, after all, how much of a class structure can be created on an internet forum? If anything, it might promote the idea of trying to help others more as there would a 'reward' of sorts for one's efforts. Perhaps members could even have a 'feedback' section in their profiles, where other members could leave comments on how helpful that member was; there would need to be some sort of system in place to stop members flaming each other this way though.
Why exactly would they be 'senseless' if they allow newbies to fins a member who the community rates as being helpful? I think the idea of 'fights' breaking out is being dramatised somewhat, I am quite sure there would be a spot of that sort of thing at first, but as people realise that the ebst way to get ratings, from members other than their friends, is to actually provide help it would no doubt lessen as a problem
The FAQs are seldom used, as far as I know anyway, so a different form of FAQ isn't all that bad an idea if it means that members are using that information more than they are now.
No doubt there would be people wanting to have their thread ranked highly, but it would actually have to be a good thread for members other than their friends to rate. If the numbe rof votes for a thread was displayed along with the ranking, it would help to indicate whether the majority of Esato thinks it is a good thread or just a few.
The post count is useful to an extent, but only so far as indicating how active a member has been. The post count indicates neither quality of post or the knowledge inherent to that poster. Why not get rid of something, which is all but useless and replace it with something that might actually provide a benefit to members?
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:32:03
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I guess most +500 posters know who to listen to.
We all know that very few in here is as helpful and knowleged as Masseur and a couple of others.
These few are an asset and a very educating part of Esato.
Speaking for myself; I try to keep my mouth shut unless I know the answer and guide new members to the right forums when posts are made in the wrong one and incurrage them to add more info to their questions if their topic lacks info.
I find most of you helpfull to newbies but what allways make me laugh is that when a new member identifies themsevles as female "everybody" jumps in to give a helping hand, then after a few posts some members try to pump them for info on who they are. (Wonder why there is so few girls in here...
)
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:33:19
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Quote: I guess most +500 posters know who to listen to
Me too, I guess - but unfortunately the newbies do not; thatīs the reason weīre argueing here - or am I missing the point?
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:40:23
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On 2004-12-14 17:07:57, dave_uk wrote:
snip...
Now, any of us would generally have an idea who the reliable sources around here are, but how does the new member know who to listen to?
I'm not sure new members need to know who to listen to because if someone posts an incorrect answer they will soon be correct by a couple of other members with more knowledge and expertise in that area so it will be clear for the new members which is correct. I see this very often and it seems to work.
also a knowledgable member in one topic might be a newbie in another topic so how do you classify that in a general way?
I see no need to classify or categorise any members as long as all members get their problems solved and some fun is had by all
I'm a bit like tranquil. Although there are certainly new problems that come up everyday, most are old problems and I like to help people who PM me for answers (and thats alot!) to find what they need from the rich resource that is Esato. This will of course raise issues of the search but as I demonstrated again yesterday with a couple of tests I was given by scotsboyuk, the search works perfectly well
getting back to the original question
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Are newbies put off from becoming involved in Esato because of a perceived level of 'closed ranks' by older, more established members? Is there a feeling that older members only really want to post amongst themselves or that the opinions of newbies are not valued to the same degree as those of established members? In essence, do newbies see joining Esato as 'daunting' or a 'challenge' to become a 'regular member'?
my response is no, I don't think this is so.
If there is such a mindset then it is possibly in the minds of the so called "older members" rather than the new members being put off and this is demonstrated by the number of new members we do get each day who do post and get problems solved.
edit: and I agree with tranquils last point. everyone seems to jump in when a new female member joins but perhaps that is to be somewhat expected in largely male orientated forum and its another shame that the balance is not more equal
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[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2004-12-14 16:45 ]
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:42:02
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@masseur
Having spoken with some newer members in my time here at Esato I have found that some would agree with your point, whilst others wouldn't. Some newbies are rather 'daunted' in that they see an established community that looks difficult to integrate into, some of the responses in this thread would seem to support that idea.
Having said that I don't think it is a major problem for newbies to integrate into the community. The reason I asked was because I was interested to see what newbies thought of this issue. Usualy when someone posts something about Esato itself it is mostly established members who participate in the discussion, I thought it might be interesting to hear from some newbies for a change. Unfortunately, there hasn't been quite the level of newbie response that I had hoped for.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-12-14 16:56 ]
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:48:38
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perhaps now that you have mentioned this we might get more newer members replying here but I think its only natural for new members to hold back from giving such opinion on a site they have only recently joined and that has nothing to do with your original question.
I think Esato works much the same as real life.
Imagine yourself walking into a room of strangers. Sure some of us are very outgoing and will walk up and join in with any conversation and we see that here at Esato whereas many more others with get a feel for the room and decide what part they feel most comfortable with and then join in there. Again, this is what I see alot at Esato
for myself, I browsed esato for a couple of months on and off before actualy joining because I did feel it was a place I wanted to get involved with
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Posted: 2004-12-14 17:56:10
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On 2004-12-14 17:56:10, masseur wrote:
Imagine yourself walking into a room of strangers. Sure some of us are very outgoing and will walk up and join in with any conversation and we see that here at Esato whereas many more others with get a feel for the room and decide what part they feel most comfortable with and then join in there. Again, this is what I see alot at Esato
for myself, I browsed esato for a couple of months on and off before actualy joining because I did feel it was a place I wanted to get involved with
That is very much what happened to me. I lurked around for a while before signing up, and to be honest I signed up so I wouldn't get that annoying banner telling me to sign in to view images. Then after signing up I didn't post much because I didn't have much to say. Once I did start posting I felt that most everyone took me seriously and the integration was pretty easy.
There have been plenty of "veteran" members here who have been quite willing to help me either in threads or by PM. I think feeling integrated is just a matter of finding threads that interest you or threads that you have relvant information on. I've had my share of threads that nobody has responded to and quite a few thread killing posts, but that hasn't stopped me from posting in other threads or starting a thread when I have something to say.
I don't know if my opinion is that of a newbie or a more experienced member. Like everyone else said, I don't know how you define that. But I still remember signing up so I suppose this will be helpful.
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Posted: 2004-12-14 19:49:37
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