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@marc
are we talking about mobile phone enthusiasts or general public? coz you keep on talking about outdated specs from and you/and others dont really care for their phones these days. Thats fair enough. Buts only us enthusiasts are the ones who care, the general public dont, as i said in another thread, average consumer just buys whats new, or what the sales man suggests, or the phone with the best design to them, or of course. which has most MP camera. Us enthusiasts only make up a small share of the market, and will/are still making their money whether we buy their phones or not, and they know their future products will sell good too. I just dont get where your arguement is going. its a simple fix really, dont buy . The people who cant see that their phones may have slightly outdated features in some way and yet they keep using them, then so be it. Theres no need to keep pointing out phones dont have certain features, its not going to change things...... and people will still buy
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Posted: 2007-09-27 14:24:08
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I'm a self professed SE fanboy and I'm not ashamed by this fact. But I agree with Dogmann when he says SE is getting complacent and we're only pampering them to continue being complacent. I love my P990, but the crappy customer support and lack of genuine effort to listen to the users' plights have invoked a love-hate relationship between myself and SE. There aren't even logs to track bugfixes for firmware updates, and they have no idea how their devices perform when after the second last firmware update, they had the audacity to claim there are no memory leakages in our devices. WTF??? And to make matters worse, they take away excellent, pertinent features with the updates such as autofocus in video capture making our videos appear blurry which some even thought is rendered unusable (me included). Yes, maybe SE is extending their mid-range phones to gain marketshare, but if they produce only 1 flagship smartphone in the midst, do you think it's wise to go on the same path and embrace mediocrity? Don't you think their remnants of flair in creativity and cutting-edge technology should at least be present here? The P1 was released more than half a year after N95 and the only thing it has to show for is more RAM while other features compared apple to apple are beaten flat by the Nokia device . Bear in mind the P1 is still a flagship smartphone only recently released but already lacking in specs that should be made available to the data-centric, business-oriented device such as HSDPA (caused by the outdated and slow processor), wifi g which should be the standard for today's wifi devices (also a feature unsupported due to its outdated processor), flash support needed to view most websites in this day and age, and the limited internal memory that can't be transfered to external memory causing limited amount of emails that could be stored for hardcore business-centric users. I believe that if we truly love SE devices, be it for its funcionality or simply for its looks, then we should give them praises when they're really due but we also need to constantly remind them that their devices aren't exactly perfect which would ultimately help push them forward.
Finally, just so that I don't sound too off-topic, wanna say the K850 design is horrendous, but the rumoured K860 looks really promising Might get me one of those, but I'll definitely give the K850 a pass

[ This Message was edited by: mode on 2007-09-27 20:32 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-27 19:15:48
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"treats it's users with contempt". This is what I mean by your irrational reaction to what is afterall just a phone company. You accuse me of fanboyism but yet all I do is try and correct your misplaced aggression towards SE. I KNOW SE are not perfect. When did I ever say that? You put words in my mouth as easily as you think I do to you. Perhaps if you read your own posts with a rational and balanced perspective, you would see why people think you are a nokia fanboy?

Another thing I know, my N70 is a steaming dog turd of a phone but do I sing it to all who will hear? NO, only when people try and claim SE are some sort of evil who does nothing but release shit phones on the public. I use it as an example that everyone's experience is different. The only reason you see SE as being crap is because of your experience of SE. One person's direct experience. You then remember every bad comment anyone ever says on forums about SE, but not the good. You ignore the fact that when people have problems with their phones they report it in flying fists of rage to every forum they can, but they don't post the good stuff. No one jumps on twenty forums telling everyone their phone works. But when it doesn't work they do.

So the evidence you are seeing you are interpreting as a balanced response but it's not. You see 90% bad reports 10% good reports on forums. Even then, due to your bias, you don't see the hundreds of posts complaining about Nokia phones. For example you minimise N70 problems, yet Nokia stopped releasing firmware before the phone was even stable. I am not the only one, I have read many posts complaining about the N70. You obviously, because of your bias, don't see those posts.

And mate, to denigrate my opinion about SE expanding the mid range, there is very good evidence for this, yet you make out I am just making excuses, just making it up to argue with you. So much for best debater buddy. If you can't actually address the point don't say anything at all.

By expanding the mid range they attract far more users than the ones such as you who they lose.

The fact is when SE get something wrong, you express contempt. When Nokia do something wrong you make excuses. I'm sick of listening to your diatribes mate.

What about this list of tips for N95, where it lists that N95 has memory issues, and that you MUST update the firmware to the latest to avoid these issues: http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/tipsn95.htm
Sound a little SEesque?


N95 firmware problems:

Volume on some Bluetooth car kits is very low
Bluetooth still doesn't work well with many car kits
Multimedia key stops working if recurring alarms are set
Camera bug: sharpness stuck to hard
camera issues with colour and image over-sharpening
Intermittant WLAN connectivity ("Actually, this is a really bad flaw because I'm forced to use 3G to transfer data. What i really hate is the total lack of tools on the phone itself. I cant view the mac, ip address or any other useful details for troubleshooting." user post)
Gallery menu: the device sometimes freezes the galery application! It's not possible to close the galery after this. You have to turn the device off
Crashing while browsing
GPS maps off by 50 meters
Browser crashes after streaming
One way speech
In some menu's, the phone will freeze for like 30 seconds then come back to life
N95 corrupting file system on memory card
Nokia Speech2go makes the unit power down & restart
User post: "Definately need new firmware, there seems to be quite a few annoying bugs and stability issues.
The sooner its here the better"
using the GPS causes messaging to crash and lock up
Phone terminates a call and re-boots


Stability issues improved with firmware releases:
Out of memory
WLAN stability
General stability
USB stability
Multimedia menu stability
Stability improvements to BlueTooth connectivity
WLAN stability
major improvement in image quality


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Posted: 2007-09-28 01:38:59
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@dogmann, "crappy SE PC suite as many other all over Forums have also reported these problems "

I agree with this, infact I've been the first to complain about PC Suite whenever the issue comes up. But I don't go on an anti-SE tirade, I just recommend a thirdparty solution that actually works perfectly. (My Phone Explorer)

Same reason I don't jump on an anti-Microsoft bandwagon just because I use Paint Shop Pro instead of mspaint, or Media Player Classic instead of Windows Media Player.

Anyway, I agree PC Suite is crap, and yes it's disappointing. It's shame SE don't replace the Mobile Phone Monitor component of PC Suite as this is the cause of PC Suite problems. If they replaced it with something better, they would eliminate many of the pc-phone connectivity problems that user's report.

But you see, am I contemptous? Am I resentful? Am I angry about it? No, it's just a phone for God's sake.
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Posted: 2007-09-28 02:25:00
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@MaxWedge

You want evidence of SE treats it's users with contempt do you no problem as you know i will always when asked quantify my statements and back them up.

SE release UIQ3 which by any ones standards is a shambles SE then say nothing no communication with their users and take 2 months at a time to release new firmware. Although each new firmware solves certain problems it appears to introduce new ones and still SE remains silent no communication from them at all. Eventually after 10 months the P990 starts to reach stability except for the last firmware has introduced two new major bugs the long text and E-Mail bugs. At this time SE announce the P990 is stable and working as well as it can expected to so are stopping any more firmware this device isn't even a year old and is nothing like what SE are claiming either. It has failed to deliver most of the things it promised on the SE website page for it.

Only when most P990 users start a campaign to have these bugs fixed and get new firmware all over the Web and it this starts to get a lot of media attention are SE forced to back down and agree to give a final firmware.

Oh yes and the biggest sign of contempt possible SE knew most if not all these problems existed and yet where happy to continue selling these devices and taking their money whist putting them in the promised land awaiting a new fix it all firmware. Proof that they new of the problems is easy who puts a message on any device that it is restarting to improve performance if you don't know it is going to be doing a lot of restarting.

To do that is treating their users well is it? as to me that shows nothing but contempt for there users and i don't see how you could possibly argue otherwise.

You want to compare how different company's treat their customers when when they know there is a problem. Yes you guessed it Nokia released the E90 and screwed up see i don't say they are perfect always do i? But on realising their was a problem what did they do did they just continue selling this device with huge demand and rake in the cash and say don't worry we will fix it later. No they stopped shipping them until they fixed the issues and are are only now due to start shipping them in October. Notice a difference in how one company values and treats it's customers and i know which one i think is the right course of action to take no contest there really is there.

Again Max you keep this repeating this lie and obviously believe just because you repeat it enough it will become true. Where have i ever claimed that all Nokia's devices are perfect and don't have problems? and what excuses do i or have i made please go on point me to one anywhere if you can because as far as i am concerned this is just in your imagination.

As far as excuses go your are the king of this as it's never poor little SE's fault is it. They only have limited amount of money, they don't have enough market share, how about a bit of the truth they just don''t care as long as they can get away with their actions they will just continue why change if their users are constantly happy to accept second best.

All that i say is that at least with Nokia they release firmware upgrades quickly that usually fix most things and rarely introduce new ones. Not quite what you are happy to suggest yet again is it?

I also don't get the point of the N95 problems list either as right at the beginning of it says users are advised to upgrade firmware to resolve these issues. As i have said no device is perfect and very rarely at launch but the speed that these firmwares are realeased and how much they improve the device is what counts. Most if not all these issues are resolved by now with only a couple of firmware upgrades needed. The reason my N95 didn't have any of these problems was i didn't buy it till V12 firmware was available and all of those little problems had been fixed. Again despite what you like to believe mine had no loose slider, loose screen or hissing or buzzing either during conversations or listening to Music. If you don't believe me ask Mutleboy who bought it off me after i had it for about 6 weeks and he will confirm it's condition and how well it works.

Compare that to the first bug list of the P990 but you may need a couple of pages for that one and just how long it took to reach an acceptable state, oh sorry i forgot everyone you know where all happy from day one and had no problems unlike the majority of users.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-28 13:36 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-28 12:06:51
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uys, this thread is about k850 getting VGA recording, not about which company that does best
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Posted: 2007-09-28 20:32:47
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Dogmann, your reply just proves you are just as one-sided as anyone. I never said SE are perfect either. I never said they didn't have problems with P990. You are making assumptions about what I think based on your either/or interpretation of this argument. In your mind, Either I agree with you, OR I am an irrational SE fanboy making excuses for SE.

we are talking two phones basically, P990 and M600. And yes they are flagship phones, and yes SE stuffed up on communication and under-estimated the seriousness. Yes it's appalling. Exploding Nokia batteries anyone? (how long did it take for them to admit that?) All phone companies have their sins.

But you see, I JUST DON'T AGREE it's worth dismissing the entire company and the many other excellent stable bug free phones they have. You keep on at me about how anyone with any sense hates SE but I'm in some kind of la la land. You dismiss the whole SE line because two smartphones had major faults, is this because you buy into the Nokia fanboy myth that smartphones are real phones and non-smartphones are irrelevant? (despite the fact Nokia have no touchscreen on their smartphones, which to me and many others, is part of the defintion of smartphone)? The fact is you are pissed off with SE, for your own reasons, and want everyone to agree with you. Some of those reasons are good reason to be pissed off, but in the end it's just a phone company, you take the good with the bad. You want to think SE are worse than any other oem, fine that's your opinion. I don't share it, and I won't argue with you anymore if your main argument is that I'm a fanboy who makes excuses. If you want to go around thinking SE is some evil phone company who care nothing but profit fine. Think what you like.

We've gone WAY off topic with this argument, so this is my last post on the matter.

_________________
File System Tweaks for the K750 K750 Tricks
K800 Tips and Themes
Max's K800 Page

[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-09-29 08:23 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-29 03:35:02
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@MaxWedge

I was more to happy to let this end but when you start saying you haven't said various things you have you need to be corrected and maybe to have it pointed out to you as you said in a previous post and i quote

"All the people I know personally who use SE phones have nothing but praise and good experiences. Even on these forums, when P990 came out with all the firmware problems, many P990 users sailed through without any problems what so ever, and have loved their P990's the whole time."


Which by the way is just so funny no one in their right mind would dare suggest that of any P990 users especially not until after the 2nd or 3rd firmware came out felt like that.

After this you then say in your last post.

" I never said SE are perfect either. I never said they didn't have problems with P990.

Now as for this quote

"You keep on at me about how anyone with any sense hates SE but I'm in some kind of la la land."

Really this is news to me please show me anywhere i have suggested that anyone should hate SE. I haven't even suggested no one should not buy SE never mind hate them. Yet another prime example of you trying to make it look like i say things i haven't.

I really am beginning to think you have a serious problem with reality as you mentioned it maybe you are in La La land as the amount of things you constantly suggest i have said that i haven't is just getting really ridiculous now, how about trying to accuse me of things i actually say for a change rather than what you imagine i have said. Oh sorry Forgot that wouldn't support my alleged hate campaign and telling everyone not to buy SE would it?

It's really strange you are more than happy to constantly suggest i say all sorts of things but not once have you backed them up with an actual quote or any thing to back up your claims you just repeat the same old rubbish of Dogmann hates SE Dogmann slates all SE devices, Dogmann never sees any faults with Nokia's or makes excuses for them, which quite frankly none of which is true. You just change the subject and carry one regardless not once have you quantified a single accusation against me.

If any one needs a reality check it is you stop saying things that aren't true i and i won't have the need t respond to the accusations you keep on making.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-29 18:35 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-29 19:21:55
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Nokia released exploding batteries, people got injured and said nothing for 2 years. But no ones perfect.
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Posted: 2007-09-29 21:19:21
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@londonlad123


Dear oh dear is that really the best you can up with as counter argument against what SE did with UIQ3 how very sad. Just in case it escaped your notice Nokia like everyone else don't manufacture there batteries they buy them in and just how many people where injured then? Especially as unlike what you like to suggest it was actually a precautionary move as a few had exploded so because their may of been a fault in their manfactuer they where recalled as as safety measure not because they where all exploding as you seem to think.

Just to prove the point taken from a quote by J C WHITE in the Nokia recall batter thread

" Matsushita Battery Industrial Co. of Japan has agreed to pay out for the 46 million faulty batteries in Nokia handsets.

Matsushita will cover the direct costs related to last week's product advisory on Nokia-branded BL-5C batteries.

Nokia and Matsushita have a long business relationship and the two companies are cooperating closely together in this situation,' said Masatsugu Kondo, President of Matsushita Battery. 'Matsushita Battery has agreed to cover the direct costs associated with the product advisory, including, among other things, logistics costs, call center costs, and replacement battery costs."


Although what batteries have to do with an OS is beyond me, but if that's the best argument you can come up with i really wouldn't bother.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-29 21:47 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-29 22:35:00
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