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@Mario. So which European operators have an edge network instead of 3G?
UMTS is vastly more important to operators because they spent an awful lot of money for the licences.
What your saying is all the mobile operators listed below should give up on their UMTS networks and licences, which they each paid huge amounts of money for, to let everyone start using EDGE instead?
Does that honestly make good business sense?
Operator Country
3 Italy
3 UK
3 Austria
3 Sweden
3 Denmark
Mobitel Slovenia
TIM / Telestet Greece
T-Mobile UK
TeliaSonera Sweden
Vodafone UK
TIM Portugal
T-Mobile Austria
Belgacom Belgium
Cosmote Greece
Telecom Italia Italy
Vodafone Germany
Telefónica Móviles Spain
3 Austria
Vodafone Portugal
Vodafone Italy
Vodafone Spain
T-Mobile Germany
Optimus Portugal
Tele2 Sweden
Vodafone Netherlands
SFR France
E-Plus Germany
O2 Germany
Tango / Tele2 Luxembourg
Vodafone Ireland
KPN Netherlands
Orange UK
Orange France
Vodafone Sweden
Mobitel Slovenia
Swisscom Switzerland
Sonera Finland
Wind Italy
Amena Spain
Elisa Finland
Vodafone Greece
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-06 13:27 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-06 12:29:47
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@whiz
SE only have a handful of products on the market, they really can't afford to have one of them 'out of action' in their core markets. In simplistic terms one could perhaps see EDGE as replacing another feature e.g. the S700/10. If this is the case then SE are losing a feature in a product in favour of another feature that is next to useless for their core customers.
Since SE don't release many EDGE enabled products one has to assume that it is too much effort for them to do so. As I said, I don't think they would willing pass up any market.
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On 2005-05-06 11:10:16, mario2002 wrote:
How can someone say EDGE is not important in Europe ? Is more widespread then UMTS ! Only a handfull of countries does not offer it and just about all will have at least one EDGE network before this year is over.3G is rolling out very slow and if you want faster internet access EDGE is the way to go.
As goldenface said this is a highly doubtful statement. I am aware that some Eastern European networks have implemented EDGE, but I think this was more to do with them not being able to implememnt 3G.
If you look at the 4 big European markets (UK, France, Germany and Italy) you will see that it is very unlikely that EDGE will ever be readily available. The networks have too much to loose by implementing EDGE and it would be farcical for them to offer a competing product to their 3G services, which wasn't quite as good as 3G.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-06 14:42 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-06 14:20:45
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Apparantly you people are seeing this topic as a piss-take by the edge enabled markets infuriated due to not being catered for. In that case lets talk phones in general...forget 3g, forget edge. Nokia 6630 costs 22k INR, the 6680 costs 25k. Moving to the se camp the k750 is expected to release at 24k, w800 30k, z800 30k+ Smartphones may be occupying 4% of the market right now but thats coz they were expensive(and well s60 phones had quite a few flaws)...now apart from the public being more inclined to buy them out of sheer tech awareness and them being more capable than ever their prices are an added bonus. Can the plain, boring vanilla phones really match up? Inspite of the k7 being an excellent phone have you not seen numerous posts where people post futile tricks to do stuff only smarts can? Its apparent everybody wants one...now they can get one without having to make any compromises except perhaps the extra 0.7mp count which nokia plans to bridge with N series anyways. Not just nokia, samsung's phones(music phone with hdd, qvga res screen and windows platform for one) at cebit were highly impressive too. What are se doing...banking on dumb customers/technophobes, animating menus, supporting expensive mempy standards, making you wait for the next p series and hoping gimmicks like walkman branding take off. The others are catching up on what se was great at...music, displays, menu, fun-factor/designs and they're spicing it up with a slew of their own specialities.
fanatics may start praying now....
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Posted: 2005-05-06 15:15:05
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The author of the topic just wanted to know why no SE Edge phones in Europe?
Maybe
are just not releasing edge phones in Europe maybe because the operators don't want them to for the reasons given above.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-11 16:05 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-06 15:50:56
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On 2005-05-06 15:15:05, clank wrote:
Nokia 6630 costs 22k INR, the 6680 costs 25k. Moving to the se camp the k750 is expected to release at 24k, w800 30k, z800 30k+ Smartphones may be occupying 4% of the market right now but thats coz they were expensive(and well s60 phones had quite a few flaws)...now apart from the public being more inclined to buy them out of sheer tech awareness and them being more capable than ever their prices are an added bonus. Can the plain, boring vanilla phones really match up?
The majority of people aren't buying smartphones because they don't need them. I have already debated this point ad verbatim, but I can repeat myself if you would like.
The bottom line is that the vast majority of the public simply don't care about smartphone features. Most customers care about how well their handset does with regards to the more basic features. Music players, cameras, colour screens, texting and calls; these are the things most customers care about, not smartphones.
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Inspite of the k7 being an excellent phone have you not seen numerous posts where people post futile tricks to do stuff only smarts can? Its apparent everybody wants one...now they can get one without having to make any compromises except perhaps the extra 0.7mp count which nokia plans to bridge with N series anyways. Not just nokia, samsung's phones(music phone with hdd, qvga res screen and windows platform for one) at cebit were highly impressive too.
How much are these new handsets likely to be? Estimates put the N91 at around the £500 for example. Simply put smartphones are not important to the majority of the public nor are the 'tricks' that one can do with them.
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What are se doing...banking on dumb customers/technophobes,
You mean the vast majority of ordinary customers who don't care about smartphone features? The ones who pay SE's bills and allow them to make a profit?
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animating menus, supporting expensive mempy standards, making you wait for the next p series and hoping gimmicks like walkman branding take off. The others are catching up on what se was great at...music, displays, menu, fun-factor/designs and they're spicing it up with a slew of their own specialities.
fanatics may start praying now....
What a bleak view you have. You still seem to be under the impression that SE competes with the likes of Nokia or Samsung on an equal basis. SE do very well in their core markets, which is where they focus their efforts.
The initial reception to the W800 in Europe seems to indicate that it will be a hige success, principally because it isn't too complicated; offers a service people want and isn't likely to be too expensive.
SE have never competed with other manufacturers on a one for one basis and I don't see them doing so for some time to come. What SE do, however, is to offer well designed and well thought out products to appeal to an increasing wide range of customers.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-06 14:54 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-06 15:53:41
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@scots Lets talk about what people want: videos...well smarts support more formats, full screen playback and an arsenal of powerful players. Music...new phones are equally good if not better, again due to extra formats like ogg and more players. Cameras...everybody is packing in powerful mp plus cameras but smartphone users can even edit pics/videos on phone. Games...vanilla phones cant even come within earshot of smarts. Calls and text...not much ups/downs here. The popularity of webviewer, pocketweb, oceanlake suggests they want web browsing as well. And all this media requires fast download speeds which brings us back to edge/3g. And obviously they'll appreciate the lighting fast response speeds of the new nokia smarts. And guess what...they get all this for much cheaper...WOW!! I cant believe you're trying to float half a boat...se's dream customer
[ This Message was edited by: clank on 2005-05-06 16:02 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-06 16:49:17
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Quote:
On 2005-05-06 16:49:17, clank wrote:
@scots Lets talk about what people want: videos...well smarts support more formats, full screen playback and an arsenal of powerful players.
Most customers could care less whether their mobile supports a certain type of standard, they just want it to work.
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Music...new phones are equally good if not better, again due to extra formats like ogg and more players.
A smartphone isn't required for this.
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Cameras...everybody is packing in powerful mp plus cameras but smartphone users can even edit pics/videos on phone.
Who does this actually appeal to? Most customers don't even use MMS let alone editing their pictures and/or videos. A useful feature perhaps, but not one that is a deciding factor.
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Games...vanilla phones cant even come within earshot of smarts.
Really? I can't say that I notice any major difference in quality between them that would prompt someone to abandon a dedicated games platform. Mobile games are still very much 'time fillers', they really aren't competing on the same level as dedicated machines. Perhaps in a year or two's time this argument may be relevant.
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Calls and text...not much ups/downs here.
Except price, smartphones are, on average, more expensive, hence those looking for basic phone features (i.e. most people) will not bother spending the extra cash.
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The popularity of webviewer, pocketweb, oceanlake suggests they want web browsing as well.
No, the actual data usage patterns are very much focused upon ringtones, wallpapers, news/sports videos and other similar services. Actual internet browsing can and has been implemented on non-smartphones, not that it is striking any particular chord.
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And all this media requires fast download speeds which brings us back to edge/3g. And obviously they'll appreciate the lighting fast response speeds of the new nokia smarts. And guess what...they get all this for much cheaper...WOW!! I cant believe you're trying to float half a boat...se's dream customer
Perhaps people will buy the even cheaper 3G handsets offered by LG? Or perhaps they will buy handsets from Motorola? I can't really see tens of millions of people rushing out to spend £500 on a mobile phone just because it has a HDD and is 3G, it just isn't value for money for most people. The new N series is hardly likely to be 'much cheaper', if anything some of the models may be rather on the pricey side.
As for 'floating half a boat' I am doing nothing of the sort. I may prefer SE products, but that does not stop me from looking at and buying products from other manufacturers. Indeed, my first 3G handset was a NEC 616 (a terrible purchase).
What you seme to fail to understand is that the public (wit the arguable exceptions of Japan and South Korea) are really not that sophisticated and discriminating when it comes to these advanced features and services that we all love. The chief dtermining fcator is price, people won't buy fancy handsets if they are too expensive; they also won't buy cheap handsets with fancy features if those fancy features are too expensive to use. A prime example is MMS, supposedly it was going to replace SMS, but one only has to look at the figures to see that a more sophisticated feature that is over priced and not delivering what the customer wants is not going to catch on to any great extent.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-06 16:37 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-06 17:36:27
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As all my Indian mates are praising Nokia and its smart phones and its comparitive cheapness to SE phones...i would like to bring to your attention that I have seen many people (i am from a little town) using Nokia 6600 just to press the 'Green' button to say Hello and 'Red' button to hang up ... just bcos its a Nokia and just bcos the guy next door has it ..or they have heard the 'Sales Guy' tell them that you can hear MP3 songs and view Videos in them...
If that's what these 'SmartPeople' buy their 'Smart Phones' for then i really doubt what 'SmartPhones' are for
Its not in my town....most ppl buy these phones jus for multimedia stuff ... and may be 10% of those will really use it as a 'SmartPhone'
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Posted: 2005-05-06 20:19:32
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I agree that SE's primary market is Europe & Japan, and as such cannot afford to play around as much as Nokia & Co do.
I won't be surprised if there is an unwritten understanding between the major European networks - who have invested much in 3G - and SE that the later should downplay EDGE in its products.
Another conspiracy theory? Maybe. Otherwise, I do not see any tangible reason why SE cannot include EDGE capability in a larger number of its products - if it will give it more foothold in its marginal markets. I don't think it costs that much to put it in. And even that must count for something.
In the final analysis, the solution is simple - at least from the consumer angle: if you need EDGE, boycott SE. Vote with your money.
I am not so much a loyalist that I cannot look elsewhere.
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Posted: 2005-05-07 11:52:00
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@AYA
Spot on old boy. If there is a feature that you really want, but SE doesn't provide then why not simply switch to a manufacturer who will provide said feature? SE don't release anywhere near as many handsets as Nokia et al so they really can't offer every configuration that one may wish for.
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Posted: 2005-05-07 15:20:11
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