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turkey is on the globe tahts important and ppl live there..
i'm not in slovakia i'm in england.. i cant help you to look for clearday..
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Posted: 2004-12-11 21:51:18
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oh,where's you friend ?
In Bratislava ?
I live around 80 km from Bratislava.It's too far for me to get there. We are small country
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Posted: 2004-12-12 10:11:00
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@Clearday
Just to point out to you that Turkey does not have the second largest armed forces in the world. The U.S. has the second largest armed forces, after China, India being third.
The main objections to Turkey entering the EU are really nothing to do with religion; rather human rights and Cyprus. The EU stands for freedom, democracy and the rights of the individual, Turkey, with respect, it viewed by many as not protecting people's human rights to the same extent that other European countries do.
Cyprus is another problem, no nation, except Turkey, recognises northern Cyrpus as anything but territory belonging to the south, which is currently being occupied by Turkish forces. I do not wish to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of the Turkish invasion, rather I am merely pointing out an obstacle that Turkey needs to overcome to integrate more fully into Europe.
I for one think it is a jolly good idea to admit Turkey as a member of the EU, it will add diversity and more prosperity to Europe as well as extending the zone of peace and security, that other Europeans currently enjoy, to tens of millions of people.
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Posted: 2004-12-19 21:43:39
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Good to know about armies.
But where are Russians ?
Ive been there and I was suprised that almost every man is an military officer or soldier .
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Posted: 2004-12-19 22:46:41
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@scotsboyuk
I see u have lots of wrong infos about Turkish army and its ability,capacity.According to the USA army and navy sources,Turkey has the most powerful army in the EU and second in the World.As a world power,Turkey has control all asian territory,Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iran,Turkmenistan,Ozbekistan,Tatars leaders all has been educated by Turkish army.And Turkey s the unique country to produce submarines,planes and other high-end technologies.The report of high-end Army magazine of USA Turkey has provide 4 nuclear submarine in only one month.TAI s the biggest plane,and material manufacturer in EU and Asian territory,Boing s 40000 materials are produced in Turkey.Well I do not wanna to mention more.Huh I forget.Turkey has the most powerful special forces in the world,in a race of special forces in USA, Turkey special forces are the best in all these races.Called "bordo bereliler","jitem","efe","yıldız",ejderha",etc...the some Usa rangers and some special delta forces have been educated in Isparta Mountain Commando School in Turkey.And absolutely u dont know these things...
what else,the Turkish forces are peaceful forces.I see you have a little info about Cyprus.My relatives have been killed and murdered by Cyprus Rums,and last week an old reporter has announced thier acrocities to innocent Turkish people in 1970 s...Of course they fears from Turks.They always fears from Turks.And a little army force has taken half of island in ten days...We do not want island or islands,land or lands,if they had kept on peaceful environments in the same island they now control all island today.But for us they have made a big mistake,and they paid it with their lands.And now surely they couldnt accept this thing.These are thier faults,not ours.If some country or anything else try to kill or make an acrocity of Turkish man in our peaceful lands,it absolutely pay its actions.U know the Gelibolu and Canakkale,all the world knows it.Dont you? 12 country in Canakkale neckle tries to take Turkish lands(even we have that days so thin power,after Ottoman regimes collapsed and Republic built,so poor people,and our EU friends,especially England had tried to take control over Turkish country)and all of you failed.MAN WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HISTORY,WE HAVENT FORGET IT.WE ALWAYS LIVE WITH TOGETHER,WITH PEACE,WITH LOVE,BUT WE DO NOT FORGET OUR HISTORY,THE HISTORY ALWAYS SAYS TRUES...
How long wil you say, "I will conquer the whole world
and fill with myself"?
Even if the snow covered the world completely,
the sun could melt it with a glance.
A single spark of God's mercy
can turn poison into springwater.
Where there is doubt,
He establishes certainty.
-Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi (1207-1273)
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Posted: 2004-12-20 08:17:50
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and lots of things remaining that I didnt mentioned.
@Scots,you say some integration words...Sometimes these words come me so nonsense.Why?ok let me tell why?
1-You have taken Cyprus into EU.But They have a still problem with Turks.Everytime they try to put vetos to us...Heh heh what u say "integration"
2-Ur money "sterlin" why germans,other nations use "euros" and u use still "sterlin"... u say "integration" wow what a word...
3-Why other eu countries use same visas to other nations and you perform a different visas... what u said "integration"...yeah u know man
4-Spain-bask territory,Englang-Ireland-Ira...u say intagration I say u know everything man...And u say "integration"
5-Italy-Kurds-Turkey,Italy had protected some kurds they had provided some tents.We have found lots of mines in Turkey lands that Italy produces and given their friends-Kurds in 1980-1990s.U said "integration",yes definete intagration.
6-Armenians and France(lot of votes in France by armenians-and it s a selection material) uses acrocities that no one know what happened in France in our Kars city,mountain.All of our archievs fully open-Ottoman archievs to the world,so why armenians blocked the archieves...intagration with France,yeahhh definete integration...
7-UK,USA integrated the Iraq with world.Yeah u guys know what petrol,so sorry what intaegration means...
8-Integrations...I must write a poem what integration s...But I must write a real man s sentences here,"Mevlana"
The day I've died, my pall is moving on -
But do not think my heart is still on earth!
Don't weep and pity me: "Oh woe, how awful!"
You fall in devil's snare - woe, that is awful!
Don't cry "Woe, parted!" at my burial -
For me this is the time of joyful meeting!
Don't say "Farewell!" when I'm put in the grave -
A curtain is it for eternal bliss.
You saw "descending" - now look at the rising!
Is setting dangerous for sun and moon?
To you it looks like setting, but it's rising;
The coffin seems a jail, yet it means freedom.
Which seed fell in the earth that did not grow there?
Why do you doubt the fate of human seed?
What bucket came not filled from out the cistern?
Why should the Yusaf "Soul" then fear this well?
Close here your mouth and open it on that side.
So that your hymns may sound in Where- no-place!
-Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi (1207-1273)
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Posted: 2004-12-20 08:43:46
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@Clearday
I see you have taken my points as being an attack on Turkey, quite why I am not sure. The points I made are general points on how Turkey is perceived by Europeans, they are not an attack on Turkey.
With regards to the Turkish armed forces I will disagree with you, the Turkish armed forces are very far from being the second best in the world. The U.S. has arguably the best armed forces in the world, interms of both resources and training. After the U.S. one would argue that China, France and the UK have the world's most powerful military forces, as they are the only nations in the world, with the exception of the U.S. capable of fighting a major war independently of other nations on a global level.
Turkey may have a strong regional military force, but it lacks the necessary capabilities to project that force beyond the Middle East. Turkey also lacks any form of strategic defense in the form of nuclear weaponary. Turkey, like most nations in the world has no capacity to act outside its immediate region. If Turkey were to engage in a war beyond the Middle East it would be at a major disadvantage, lacking the necessary logistical and economical means to fight such a war. For example, if Turkey were ever to engage in hostilities with France, Turkey has no practical capability to launch meaningful attacks on French soil, in contrast France has the capability to not only launch and sustain a heavy aerial bombardment of Turkey, but also to enforce a naval blockade. An invasion would almost certainly be unnecessary in our scenario as the Turkish economy would be incapable of matching the French economy in conducting a protracted war.
Turkish special forces may very well be good, but they are not the best or even the second best in the world. By most accounts the U.S. Delta Force, Navy Seals; the British SAS, SBS and Ghurkas; the German S019 and the Australian SAS are regarded as the best special forces in the world. These groups have had direct combat experienc ein a variety of theatres, not just regional theatres and not against a single enemy.
Turkey actually buys a great deal of military equipment from the UK, which is the fifth largest exporter of arms in the world, behindAmerica, Russia, France and Germany respectively. In fact Turkey, along with several other middle Eastern nations recently attended an auction of British military hardware.
As for Cyprus, the point I made was not intended to pass judgement on Turkey's invasion, merely to point out an issue that many Europeans feel should be dealt with before Turkey is allowed to join the EU.
The UK still uses sterling because it is a stronger currency than the euro and our economy is doing better than either France or Germany's. Britain is very unlikely to give up the pound in the foreseeable future. That does not mean that Britain, like the other EU nations who have not adopted the euro, cannot work closely with our European neighbours.
Irealand is a very complex issue stretching back almost a thousand years. The modern problem arises because some Irish want to have their own independent nation whilst others wish to be part of the UK. Both Britain and Eire are EU members and are committed to working closely together, integration in such a case is not a problem, the Irish will be part of the EU no matter which nationality they hold.
The Iraq war really has very little to do with the expansion of the EU, so I am not terribly sure why you raise the point. If it is to suggest that Britain acts apart from the EU then that would be correct, since the EU is not a soveriegn state, Britain has the capacity for independent action outside the EU, just as ever other EU member does.
I can see this thread racing towards national comparisons and arguments, so before it does I should point out that I am in no way trying to attack Turkey, merely point out the facts as they are. Turkey is a great country, as great as any of the other EU nations and I jolly well hope that it is allowed entry to the EU. The sooner all of Europe is a membe rof the EU the better, hopefully ensuring that armies are no longer needed in Europe and debates such as this become irrelevant, if they are not already so.
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Posted: 2004-12-20 09:59:20
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I see in the most parts of your opinions show me an one sided approaching.I do not suppose u are in attacking with ur words to Turkey.And I do not need to tell what Turkey can do or not.U say Turkey hasnt got a Nuclear affairs both weapons or anything.But I had a duty for 1 month in a Turkish nuclear submarine.so u wrong.U say the Turkey isnt far different than any middle east country.Actually I couldnt hold myself laughing when I have seen ur comments about Turkey's middle range...I just wanna show some simple parts of Turkey.Meanwhile, I was a mountain commando of liatunent and fight in Northern Iraq,had been in UK and USA.I couldnt say anything more about it.My some UK specialists and Ranger groups in the Isparta Mountain School had been funny hard days.Well again I couldnt write more...Meanwhile Chineses liutenants have still been educated in our Kuleli Military School since 1970s in Turkey.Anyway...
--->Yes look at some sites please...
http://www.tai.com.tr/AnaMenuE.html
the Turkish submarine force s one of the oldest submarine forces in the world...let me see
http://www.turkishnavy.net/submarine/main.htm
and turkish naval special forces...
http://www.dzkom.net/SAT-SAS.htm
http://www.dzkom.net/tns/
http://www.dzkk.tsk.mil.tr/English/FotoAlbumu/Denizaltilar.asp
http://www.turkish-defence.com
and here;http://www.ozelkuvvetler.org
http://www.unc.edu/depts/dipl[....]grant_turkey/grant_turkey.html
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/Turkey_SAT.htm
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/turkish.htm
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/akkuyu/specs.html
http://www.tuaf.mil.tr/default.asp
http://www.jandarma.tsk.mil.tr/ing/ing.htm
http://www.stripes.com/01/nov01/ed110601l.html
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/strforum/SF135/forum135.html
well I m bored,maybe a day I m going to continue...
[ This Message was edited by: Clearday on 2004-12-20 15:48 ]
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Posted: 2004-12-20 16:37:04
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I think you have misunderstood me, let me clarify:
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On 2004-12-20 16:37:04, Clearday wrote:
U say Turkey hasnt got a Nuclear affairs both weapons or anything. But I had a duty for 1 month in a Turkish nuclear submarine.so u wrong.
I said that Turkey has no nuclear weapons, it may very well have nuclear submarines, but not nuclear bombs.
[quote]
U say the Turkey isnt far different than any middle east country.Actually I couldnt hold myself laughing when I have seen ur comments about Turkey's middle range...I just wanna show some simple parts of Turkey.
[/quotw]
I didn't say anything of the sort, what I said was that Turkey was like most other in countries in the world when it comes to strategic capabilities, in that it has very limited strategic capabilities outside of an American framework. The armed forces of each nation are different, but most nations can only be compared, in meaningful terms, within a regional sense as very few nations have any substantial strategic capability.
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Meanwhile, I was a mountain commando of liatunent and fight in Northern Iraq,had been in UK and USA.I couldnt say anything more about it.My some UK specialists and Ranger groups in the Isparta Mountain School had been funny hard days.Well again I couldnt write more...Meanwhile Chineses liutenants have still been educated in our Kuleli Military School since 1970s in Turkey.
Turkey is part of NATO, troops from other NATO countries do train there, just as they train in the UK, America, Norway, etc.
I'm sure Turkey does train many foreign officers, but the UK operates arguably the best and most prestigious officer training facility in the world, Sandhurst, although I'm sure some Americans may argue the case for West Point. Many nations train foreign officers, especially the NATO countries who have arguably the best military systems in the world.
Thank you very much for the links, they look rather interesting.
Do the majority of Turks want to be part of the EU? Do they want the euro? Do they want to accept the European Charter?
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Posted: 2004-12-20 17:25:00
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@scotsboy
I think you may have to start a kimcheeboi-style translation thread for Mr Clearday.....I read the parts of his diatribe that you quoted in that last post and I can honestly say that jojo makes more sense
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Posted: 2004-12-20 17:59:26
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