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Any more info on Patti and paris?
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Posted: 2008-04-24 19:18:28
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The iPhone got 16Gb NAND flash memory modules, not SSD drives. Don't mix them up because there is a big difference there.
But yes I agree that should have phones with great on board memory and expandable memory.
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Posted: 2008-04-24 19:31:56
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I hope SE doesn't screw up Shiho like they did with the crappy cams ala the K850i, C902, and G900. All of those 5MP cameras are not worthy of the Cybershot branding.
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Posted: 2008-04-24 19:47:23
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my humble apologies ... but SSD utilize a NAND array (different depending on the company) for the actual storage in their drives. i was just saying SSD because i dont know how the mainboard in their phones is setup.

either incorporating eSATA or embedded NAND flash, they need to up the memory modules to be inline with this century. The internal storage should be greater than the removable storage. MicroSDHC is coming up on 16GB now, but your left with the option of having it, instead of forcing it on the consumer.

regardless of this itd be nice to not have to worry about purchasing a card or being able to copy a friends card without the hassle/tether of a computer.
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Posted: 2008-04-24 20:02:54
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SSD is not faster; its the throughput of the data to the SSD drives (eSata connection type II) is STILL slower than HDD. However IBM will have a better solution by years end - something to do with the way data is stored & archived. But SSD is for DESKTOPS/Laptops. As someone else clarified NAND is suitable but it needs to be updated.

BTW, the W960i and the upcoming w980i :Walkman: phones have what you're asking for ... Flash based memory. Although I agree on 'internal storage should be greater than the removable storage' you're not realizing that this INTERNAL memory method NEEDS to be tested before production begins (also leading to costs); but more importantly RAISES the cost of phones in the retail market. 8GB is STILL plenty and acceptable; most PC's are just now (past 1.1yrs) allowing for RAM to be that high (not servers they've had it for 2+yrs). MicroSD/M2 gives us the option to quickly swap out and have more RAM. Unless NAND (which is already in teh MicroSDHC/M2 formats or other removable memory for years) becomes faster for read/writes and the phone firmware is not mixed with the onboard 8GB(+) NAND Flash storage then I'd rather have the option to expand when available - and its getting VERY fast for higher expansion & its more cost effective for the end user. I hate to say it but when those 5TH gen iPods (80GB) came out it drove memory prices (desktops/laptops/flash based all incl) significantly higher because demand exceeded supply for a few mths.

Either way, Nokia, SE, Samsung, and Motorola are all part of a coalition to have a NEW memory format (omg yet a NEW standard & pin set) to allow for faster read/writes beyond what MicroSDHC/M2 is capable of. However, the phone File Browser code will need to be augmented to take advantage of the read/write speeds. So we'll see how this develops.
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Posted: 2008-04-24 20:42:08
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cuz its acceptable today doesnt mean it will be tmw.

im not necessarily wanting something like this, at years end, but i would like them to look into internal storage that is significant.

id like for a smartphone to be a direct competitor to eeepc's and the like.

right now, they are taking baby steps, but if they realize that this is completely with in the realm of doable, then wed see some progress, but you ppl are WAY too concerned with costs ... the amount of money these companies has FAR out weighs your concerns, whether or not they can be PROFITABLE should be more relevant, even still they need to look into it now, im tired of my phone being 10 years behind PCs, its there for the taking, thats a HUGE market that needs to be tapped into ... w.e im "nobody" who has fantasies about what a company should do.

every 12-18 months id have a new product out that is that much better than the year before. instead of rehashing.

will we get a pic leak of shiho like paris looks at m-1
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Posted: 2008-04-24 22:00:29
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The industry is working on two types of SSD drives - read biased and write biased.
Essentially read biased is pretty much what we already know today, whereas write biased drives have an amount of battery backed RAM sitting at the front end.

This really helps the write performance compared to traditional "flash" drives but of course at the moment real disks are much cheaper with greater capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

All great stuff but do we really need SSD's in our phones?


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Posted: 2008-04-24 22:10:46
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Prom1

I love ypur ideas about what SE should bring us in future.
SE's lost a lot if not all of their crowns- fomer kings of camera phones, former kings of music phones and former kings of high end phones (UIQ).

Basically they're no longer kings of innovation.
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Posted: 2008-04-24 22:17:07
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The money a company has to MAKE just 1 or 2 products in a full lineup is NOT so much that you may think. Many of these phone companies have bank loans or Investor loans - which in day trading can be pulled out of the coffers significantly in short order. Now for a phone to be profitable, the sale price per Unit must exceed the cost price. So what is involved in costs.

Costs:
* Research & Design (the longest stage: THIS is where the COST can be Profitable stage. It doesn't get past this drawing board, conference room stage if its too costly).
* Chipsets (watch out for proprietary or intellectual patent usage)
* Radio's (very cheap; but varying designs for specific models still make them significant enough to mention).
* Case manufacturing (initially a new production line will cost significantly in upwards of 100's of thousands of dollars. You don't want another paint issue to occur like the w580i early production units suffered).
* NAND flash in large size is NOT a commonplace practice in the phone indusry. Can you take a guess how much 8GB of NAND costs in a batch of 1-5million??!! I cannot imagine but for 1-5million phone units of a specific model it'll be expensive probably more than a new video acceleration chip; who knows. Lets see how many phones. W980i, W900 (no longer in production), N81 8GB (no longer in production - the bulkey model with slider cover over teh keypad), Samsung still only makes models under 512MB-1GB considerably cheaper. My guess is maybe less than 10 models EVER produced with higher than 4GB of flash NAND for imbedded memory/ram.

*Advertisement (THE MOST expensive! Trade shows is NOT enough for advertisement; because phone pervs like us make up only a small 10% if that, of new phone sales. Its the masses that make this profitable. Sure trade shows is free advertisement, but phones on average take 2mths or longer to be released & shipping after announcement made official. Multiply this is varying worldwide markets, along with shipping costs -land, sea, or air frieght, and security - and campaigns in different languages (print, radio, TV, web).
* Returns! Yes you MUST figure return shipment batches. something that is always overlooked or forgotten.
* Coding! Yes coding for this new large NAND will need to be done for EACH model even with the family GUI. Also, testing for compatibility with your accessories, Alpha testing & BETA testing.
* TIME! The hardest value of a cost of a physical product (Phone, Car, Computer) is teh time to market. SE mentioned that more cash & time in R&D was being spent just at the beginning of last quarter and that renue results will be lower than expected. Well the news is 48% LOWER revenue! OUCH! It was expected but this shocks investors, considering what had recently happend to Motorola's mobile division & their stat of affairs.

* PC's will ALWAYS be AHEAD of phones! ALWAYS. Why? Keyboard input. Programming, Database needs, corporate needs, etc. Smartphones will remain Smartphones. Until the average "touch typist" can consistently type Faster on a smartphone, code the same way & debug the sameway (in Java, C++, C#, Unix, Linux) and not have issues with screen resolution or readability as they do today; we're not going to see a coder, corporate worker get rid of their desktop/laptop for GOOD. Also we'll need the FULL blown desktop applications to be available on the Smartphones - Office 2K7, full access to folder/file structure & extensions, Photoshop (even as a cloud service, its not going to happen in 10yrs), fully reliable FOTA status without loosing user data or settings or customization, data pricing models to be reasonable & easily consumable WORLDWIDE for ALL countries and developing markets. You get my meaning right? They've been saying smartphones will take over PC's for years, but they STILL cannot offer what PC's do. I'd like it to BE right thar with em but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Great rebuttals though!

Cheers.

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Posted: 2008-04-24 22:36:15
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here are 2 articles from today:

DivX @ 120 fps: http://www.engadget.com/2008/[....]th-divx-rebranded-secret-shhh/

VGA Touch Screen: http://www.engadget.com/2008/[....]ng-to-sprint-and-looking-good/

i understand SSD is far off, as well as OLED so thats ok,

but cmon SE just aint trying hard enough. im well aware of the constraints involved with developing products and pursuing projects, but dont you think that 48% drop in revenue had somethin to do with the lackluster performance of their lineup? it just goes to prove the point im trying to make that you dont work from the bottom of the barrel up, its the WRONG philosophy for establishing a strong market presence.

i have a question would you ask a homeless person for a hand out or would you ask a middle class family or a wealthy estate ... ? putting time and R&D into lowend phones is retarded, those costs should be absorbed in researching and developing phones what will propel the brand, not drag it behind the competition.

think about this, if you spend $ on R&D on a lowend device your sacrificing funds at the top end, to develop phones that have been created already, that have already used R&D allocated from previous years. how hard is it to make a K700 into a K660 or some other lower end model, and just waterfall the tech THATS ALREADY DEVELOPED into lower models. if they are so strapped for cash they need to utilize what they have better. spend more up top less down below and let the tech ride its way down.

lowend vs high/midrange

KIA vs Ferrari
Daewoo vs BMW
Hyundai vs Honda

its a completely biased question but anyone want to venture a guess as to which generates more revenue. now i understand we have different scales working here but its just a ROUGH SIMPLE demonstration of what im trying to explain.

its funny to me because SE didnt introduce itself with lowend, they came in with that T68 and blew everyone away, it may not have been a uberhighend smart phone, but it should represent when the company decided to have a starting point, theyve drifted away from what drew their initial customers to them, and when you lose brand loyalty you become one of the fray, an "eh" away from losing a customer in the store. that lowend phone has nothing going for it against another other than the name on it, and when that name no longer means anything well, who cares ...

[ This Message was edited by: my ninja on 2008-04-25 00:10 ]
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Posted: 2008-04-25 00:45:09
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