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Tigershark42 Posts: > 500

My view is that there is far too much business and not enough innovation going on at SE. That will generate revenue, however, it doesnt shock us.
But if it shocks us, and has that wow factor to it exactly because of the innovation, thats when the business suddenly feels a huge boost.
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Posted: 2008-04-25 01:18:28
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JAGUY85 Posts: > 500

Wow, it's getting busy in here. And so many epistle type responses. LOL.
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Posted: 2008-04-25 03:34:39
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Supa_Fly Posts: > 500


On 2008-04-25 00:45:09, my ninja wrote:

DivX @ 120 fps:


Its not their first phone. BUt I'll get to how they where able to invest & LICENCE this codec and pay for advertisement/co-branding.


On 2008-04-25 00:45:09, my ninja wrote:

but cmon SE just aint trying hard enough. im well aware of the constraints involved with developing products and pursuing projects, but dont you think that 48% drop in revenue had somethin to do with the lackluster performance of their lineup? it just goes to prove the point im trying to make that you dont work from the bottom of the barrel up, its the WRONG philosophy for establishing a strong market presence.


I totally agree that it was lackluster performance but not the same place you've stated. SE was going NUTS in sales, pure performance up until the 2nd quarter of 2007. Their lineup was very diverse, but becoming stagnant and refreshes of all flagships of EACH tier was getting long in the tooth: K800, W950, P990, M600 (was scrapt), z520 to z710, z600, & w300 ALL were over 10mths OLD. They needed to replace these and VERY fast!


On 2008-04-25 00:45:09, my ninja wrote:
i have a question would you ask a homeless person for a hand out or would you ask a middle class family or a wealthy estate ... ? putting time and R&D into lowend phones is retarded, those costs should be absorbed in researching and developing phones what will propel the brand, not drag it behind the competition.


what?! I'm not seeing this analogy the same way, but I put it to you in reverse. Would you rather GIVE a handout to a homeless person or to a middle class family person each day for a month?! A middle class person is going to haggle you and most likely convince you for more of a handout even to the point of embarrasing you in front of your peers. This happend to Motorola and an investor (their LARGEST) FORCED changes in the executive management due to pending lawsuits that were VERY valid, and he even got his selection of Management of the board & of the mobile division - non executive chairman of the board. My point is that in the European & North American markets the mid tier phone markets are just reaching saturation level, while the low end is already spoken for and they ONLY upgrade when they invoke CHURN or non-warranty covered failure or when their contract is up and they RENEW. The amount of ppl that can just barely afford a low-tier phone to say a mid-tier in Europe & North America PALES in comparison to those in emerging markets: South America, East Indies(Pakistan, UAE, China, Phillipeans, Cambodia, India, etc) In India alone there are literally almost 1Billion ppl ready to buy a phone at a reasonable price according to their hard earned dollars. They work hard and SO many hours per day they're barely HOME to pick up a phone call. ALL companies start off making phones at the LOW end and work to the top. SE forgot this for so long and sales was great for a few years but not sustainable.


On 2008-04-25 00:45:09, my ninja wrote:
think about this, if you spend $ on R&D on a lowend device your sacrificing funds at the top end, to develop phones that have been created already, that have already used R&D allocated from previous years. how hard is it to make a K700 into a K660 or some other lower end model, and just waterfall the tech THATS ALREADY DEVELOPED into lower models. if they are so strapped for cash they need to utilize what they have better. spend more up top less down below and let the tech ride its way down.


Ok remember how I mentioned that their lineup was becoming stagnant? The P990 was THE most important, but they didn't want to waste cash on R&D and rush it out the door, they remained ignorant and instead decided to do the SAME formula as before, split the lineup of the top-tier phone in the portfolio (they had other plans for a NEW top-tier = Xperia X1). P1i was the truth to that philosphy of yours or part of it USE existing hardware for lower priced/tier models and use R&D for the Top-Tier models:

* P1i is basically the P990 in a new shell, without the flip keyboard, and with a better camera (from the K800i), and more ROM+RAM space! The cpu, UIQ version is ALL pretty much the SAME. Guess where SE spent the time & R&D on the upgrade for the P990i?! Thats right it was the W960i a SOLID phone! Heck its got the SSD/NAND flash memory you've been asking for.

* z750i a failure due to market acceptance for providers & differentiation between the OLDER z600 was SCRAPT! A major marketing mistake (that AT&T his half assed about pulling from their sales channel); remedied NICELY by BOTH the z770i & z780a - but here again is a stupid marketing decision, another couple of thousands or hundred thousands of dollars to have the EXACT same phone with different casings & placement on the motherboard for the FastPort. Why have a single band UMTS HSDPA device yet use a different case same thickness and better appeal (arguably) for the same specs yet have Tri-band UMTS/HSDPA !?! Waist of money to differentiate here.

* Now to affect mid-tier & top-tier phone lineup as you suggested, the A1 platform was getting long in the tooth and SE focused TOO much on just the European UMTS bands while barely giving out EDGE quadband phones, something that Motorola & Nokia where KILLING them on. Thus the dawn of the A2 platform - something that Ericsson has had for a LONG LONG time and been licensing out to Samsung and another manufacturer that I cannot recall presently. Results where minimal R&D yet fresh new lineup with potential worldwide sales and still allow for market segmentation:

* K850i worldwide phone for Cybershot (Although a dissapointment to fans, SE made CASH hand over FIST!)
* W910i Pure European workhorse for :Walkman: lineup!
* W890i Another upgrade for the :Walkman: lineup & the W880i refresh, nicely done and its SELLING! Mistake imo: they didn't include Triband HSDPA in this beautiful metal case phone.
* W760i A MAJOR upgrade for the :Walkman: lineup. It not only replaces the w580i which was a HUGE worldwide success (after initial keypad fiasco), it also appeals to the youth market that the W600/S600 appealed to LONG LONG ago. This includes aGPS (which the previous phones in this list LACK).
* z780i has what the w760i has but also in a slim clamshell form-factor. Its Triband HSDPA, aGPS, 2MP Camera with Geotagging, and its slim and fashionable for BOTH sexes not just the females (mostly like the Z750i & z600 does). SE screwed AT&T with the Z750i and they know it - BOTH of them. If SE doesn't offer AT&T the Z780a as a replacement at slightly adjusted contract pricing, it'll make it harder for AT&T to agree into contract for FURTHER phones ... and AT&T is the LARGEST HSDPA/GSM/EDGE provider across the USA and they already been favoring Samsung & LG of late. They've also already pulled the K850i at the last minute - billboards and store front posters and stands where already sent yet informed NOT to setup in stores DURING stock already on route!

* G700/900 - To me this is to replace the M600 model and appeal more to those in Europe/Asia. Big mistake not to have Triband UMTS HSDPA as it would've appealed more to those of us in N./S. Americas as well.

If you noticed, ALL these phones in my list above are TOP TIER phones! SE is doing EXACTLY what you've stated. Sure they worked on low end but its to boost their profit margin per unit sales. Low end phones cost less to R&D, Manufacture, and ship then top/mid-tier phones; thus higher profit margins. Of course their is also have the upcoming W980i top-tier clamshell as well!

BTW, has you know is a colloboration of 2 phone companies (one of which also R&D & manufacturers switches, BST's, Nodes, and cellular towers & technologies). Because of this the T68i was a smart decision to announce that partnership - they NEEDED a big bang and there was no R&D needed! The T68i model is the same phone that Ericsson R&D and began shipping just 4mths prior ... called the T68m. Their 2nd phone was mid-tier and co announced with a LOW tier phone, the T200/300 - that blue greyscale phone; also with call buttons .

Cheers.
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Posted: 2008-04-25 04:30:31
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clauf Posts: > 500


On 2008-04-24 15:38:19, my ninja wrote:
when apple continues to produce shitty mp3 players, and dominate the market, what do you think that does to the rest of the market, instead of aiming higher, we have this glut of mediocrity, people aim for the top while in this instance its the middle ground. same philosophy over at SE.


I'm starting to wonder if you have a reading problem. I have said countless times I do not fully agree with Sony Ericsson's business practices and tactics *SEE PAGE 539.* I would love to see them adding innovation into their phones like they have many years ago; which is the sole reason I stuck to Sony Ericsson for my entire life [I haven't had too many phones btw]. However, I don't mind them producing more low-end models in which they don't have too many.


On 2008-04-24 15:38:19, my ninja wrote:
please refrain from poking fun at my english writing skills, i was courteous enough to look past it, as the only reason i said something was that it seemed as though what i intended to convey had not been received. based upon your response i could see that, but i could also see that you dont write english as a main language, so i was hoping to bypass that in an extra explanation. i can write fine as ive been published before however this is an informal message board im not going to have thesis level grammar ... time consuming.


And does simply reading my forum posts mean you have the right to judge my English? That's what you've been doing for the past bit. English is not my first language but is my primary language. I understood every bit of what you've saying; I'm not an idiot.

I wasn't the one who started pointing out mistakes in one's English. I wonder who started it first? hmmm... But, I was the one who said you had "no knowledge in economics" and I appologize for that; I was simply frustrated at the time.


On 2008-04-24 15:38:19, my ninja wrote:
and consumers DO suffer if, based on company history a level of quality is expected especially at certain price points, no one wants to have a squeaky door hinge on there $400 purchase, thats just insane ... as far as it being consumer choice, sure ... but an expectation comes with all purchases having faulty housings is not something i should have to worry about, regardless of my choice.
[/quote]

I'm not directing this question to you, but how many Sony Ericsson phones really have housing issues. I know W580 & S500 was a big one, but what other ones are there?

~~~

To everyone else, I'm sorry for having such a dispute on the forums. Anyway, back to phone business, does anyone know when Sony Ericsson will be releasing huge updates in firmware?

[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 05:56 ]

[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 05:57 ]

[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 06:32 ]
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Posted: 2008-04-25 06:55:08
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Supa_Fly Posts: > 500

Off topic warning for brief highlight:


On 2008-04-25 06:55:08, clauf wrote:
(Edited for isolation & clarification)
[This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 1:15AM]
And does simply reading my forum posts mean you have the right to judge my English? That's what you've been doing for the past bit. English is not my first language but is my primary language. I understood every bit of what you've been trying to say; I'm not an idiot.

~~~ (Edited again; same reason)

To everyone else, I'm sorry for having such a dispute on the forums. Anyway, back to phone business, does anyone know when Sony Ericsson will be releasing huge updates in firmware?

[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 05:56 ]

[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 05:57 ]
[This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-04-25 1:15AM EST]


@clauf,

Its takes EXTREME courage for ANYONE to learn another language other than their mother tongue, and even more to make it their primary (either through work, relocation, or passion). Nobody has the right to insult or judge someone's weakness of their mastery of another language not their own - however helping to correct minor mistakes shouldn't be perceived as hostile. I know I've done this myself here and on other forums, trying to be as gentle as possible. Just remember lack of mastering another language is NOT a sign for lack of intelligence; simply the attempt to try another language & bravery of practicing it THAT is intelligence, my friend - keep at it.

Also it takes a special person to admit when they're wrong EVEN if they're not the first in being so and only in retaliation. Recognizing when yourself is wrong is one thing, apoligizing for it ... THAT is special. Glad you're a member on these forums!

Back to the rumors, insightful posts, and helpful hints .... speaking of which where are they at?! (thats not proper english or grammar but its fitting )

_________________
T18z|T39m twice loveless|:SE: K750|W810| BB Pearl|K790a|K850i. I 5MP & auto focus. I Tri-band HSDPA.

[ This Message was edited by: Prom1 on 2008-04-25 06:16 ]
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Posted: 2008-04-25 07:14:41
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rss_ndrsn Posts: > 500


On 2008-04-24 19:18:28, gauravsali wrote:
Any more info on Patti and paris?


Paris doesn't look good both in picture and in personal!


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Posted: 2008-04-25 08:57:14
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crossmatched Posts: > 500


On 2008-04-25 08:57:14, rss_ndrsn wrote:

On 2008-04-24 19:18:28, gauravsali wrote:
Any more info on Patti and paris?


Paris doesn't look good both in picture and in personal!




have you seen it personally?
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Posted: 2008-04-25 09:50:00
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makbil Posts: > 500

Have you guys noticed how similar the HTC shown at endgadget looks to the concepts pf P5 shown here? Actually, the HTC with full qwerty keyboard would be my preferred choice -with Symbian .
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Posted: 2008-04-25 10:43:24
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Xajel Posts: > 500

well guys, I think the SSD thing took too much talking here, as Computer Hardware enthusiast, I just would like to say that SSD is far from being mobile phone friendly...

1- SSD does have it's own interface ( SATA ), mobile phones talks directly to the memory without interface and this is to save power, the only thing mobilephone has is the logic that responsible for supporting several kinds of memory cards.
2- in SSD the power consumution is ot that important as NAND flash had very low power usage comparing to what Laptop/desktop can make and deliver, but in the same time the SSD NAND's are damn fast in order to compete with HDD, even thought they can't compete ( at least in this time ) having such a fast NAND makes them more power hugry than what is mobile-phone friendly...
3- AFAIK, the system NAND in SE are low in size ( current symbian has 256MB ) and fast too as they are shared between system and user. so increasing these NAND's size will be expensive as they will be forced to use fast NAND, but in the user memory, they can use slower and cheaper NAND as the system won't use them...
AFAIK the chips inside phones are designed to have two NAND's channel, SE is using one as system NAND, and the other as user NAND the other can be used internal or external. so there's two solutions
A- use another chip that allow three NANDs to make use system NAND, internal large NAND & memory card
B- using expensive fast & large NAND and shre them between System & user, and let the second channel be for memory cards
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Posted: 2008-04-25 10:59:18
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doministry Posts: > 500


On 2008-04-25 08:57:14, rss_ndrsn wrote:

On 2008-04-24 19:18:28, gauravsali wrote:
Any more info on Patti and paris?


Paris doesn't look good both in picture and in personal!




I think quite opposite....
@makbil
You know, I agree to some extent - this HTC Raphael looks great.
I also love P990's formfactor.
But seeing how I use my device, I'm strongly convinced that P5/Paris design will be much more ergonomic in terms of diverse situations.
No device flipping etc.... I like it.
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Posted: 2008-04-25 11:02:34
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