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urednik Posts: 11

degraaf, no, it is just a wrong WB setting and to little saturation. That is all. And it is visible in all the conditions, so telling a photographer how his eyes are misleading is a humbug.

I am honestly disappointed by you guys. Thought you have some knowledge about photography. But as I see you just luckily make good photos ...

To say something like degraaf or jms is a clear state of ignorance.

I am not talking about non-quality WB and other things. It is about totally off settings!

Sorry, but that is a fact.
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Posted: 2011-01-15 12:27:51
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jms2367 Posts: 302

I was hoping that SE will correct some issues with the Elm with a camdriver update but I lost faith with SE with regards to software updating. As a backgrounder, if you will research closely re the Elm and Hazel's low light camera problems, there are two differing opinions, one is that it is a software problem and the other that it is because of the hardware used. If it is software, I hope somebody can make a better cam driver for these phones. Sad to say, SE is very slow in updating their software (think of the xperia x10, x8 lineup in which it is way behind in the software front in terms of Android. How much more will they ignore updating the lowly Elm).

@urednik

Anyway, you may try bringing your phone to an authorized service center and good luck with your endeavor. As for me, I learned to live with it and I still do get occasional good photos with the Elm.

Cheers!
[ This Message was edited by: jms2367 on 2011-01-15 12:37 ]

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Posted: 2011-01-15 13:35:40
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reeflotz Posts: > 500

@ urednik

"luckily make good photos?" I don't think so.

These are my settings when I took these pictures and I am satisfied with how the wb came out:

Auto+ Daylight:


Original


Original

Auto, ev-1


Original


If you think your unit is faulty then you better send it back for a replacement. We are trying to help you here, not insult you, the thing is you are constantly complaining about the wrong wb on whatever setting you use, I don't have a problem with wb on my Hazel as well as the others doesn't seem to have that much problem with their wb unlike you. We have already tried as much as we can to get the best results out of our cameraphones and share them here. Constantly complaining here that we are wrong and saying you are the only one who is not able to produce pictures that we were able to won't help you. I still think the daylight pics you posted seems normal to me.
[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2011-01-15 13:21 ]

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Posted: 2011-01-15 14:10:17
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degraaff Posts: 170


On 2011-01-15 12:27:51, urednik wrote:
degraaf, no, it is just a wrong WB setting and to little saturation. That is all. And it is visible in all the conditions, so telling a photographer how his eyes are misleading is a humbug.

I am honestly disappointed by you guys. Thought you have some knowledge about photography. But as I see you just luckily make good photos ...

To say something like degraaf or jms is a clear state of ignorance.

I am not talking about non-quality WB and other things. It is about totally off settings!

Sorry, but that is a fact.


Re-read my last sentence. I'm not saying that your eyes are misleading you into seeing lower colour saturation in your pictures, I'm just stating that the Elm's camdriver does not compensate the natural loss of colour due to lack of light. The Elm's camera unit has less sensitive light sensing than human eyes so it's extra prone to loss of colour by darkness, and it's not being compensated in the camdriver by a digital increase of colour saturation. And you can whine about it all you want, it's not going to change unless a new and better camdriver becomes available.

We all face the same problems with the Elm's camera as you do, so stop complaining about it and learn to live with it until someone releases a better camdriver.
[ This Message was edited by: degraaff on 2011-01-15 14:12 ]

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Posted: 2011-01-15 15:11:04
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jms2367 Posts: 302

I am also satisfied with the general results of the pictures taken by my Elm. Even in some low light pics I am satisfied with the white balance barring the horizontal lines.



full size

I forgot to lower the EV of the picture of the motorcycle above hence the more pronounced blue horizontal lines which is a known issue with the Elm.

About photography, this is not a sophisticated single lens reflex digital camera with all the bells and whistles (I really want to put for crying out loud here ). You can only do so much on a camera phone. I do play around with the different settings of the Elm but it is not meant to be a real camera. I do get decent photos in well lighted environment but I don't expect much from it in low light situations. My opinion still stands. If you want a very good camera phone, I think the N8 is the best atm.

Cheers.
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Posted: 2011-01-15 15:14:22
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aldrinus Posts: > 500

i've already somehow implied my opinion on this matter on my previous post: a good shot or photo by a camphone is a combination of an equally good software and hardware. but one defining factor will always be the person behind the camera. take reeflotz' custom tweaking or jms' personal preferences when taking photos of varied conditions, those would eventually drive my point. a good camera with the all the best there is will be of no good to a bad photographer. i don,t really know since i am not an avowed pro or a techie for that matter. maybe its just me. this is just my 2 cents. cheers, everyone.

by the way, i think we all trust ourselves well enough when we say we know a good photo when we see one. again, i guess each and everyone will have relative reasons behind our individual judgments.
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Posted: 2011-01-15 18:33:00
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urednik Posts: 11


On 2011-01-15 15:11:04, degraaff wrote:
We all face the same problems with the Elm's camera as you do, so stop complaining about it and learn to live with it until someone releases a better camdriver.
[ This Message was edited by: degraaff on 2011-01-15 14:12 ]



Again: there is NO setting to make a tweak in WB settings for 99% of light conditions. So I am not experiencing same problems with my elm. What bothers you are blue lines, never WB. So yeah, I have to bring it back in to the service.
However I found out that there are different series of this product - at least two. Those who bought it without the USB cable and the ones that have the cable included. I tested and compared with my friends ELM, and it had a similar problem, but then I found someone who bought the phone somewhere else with the cable included and that handset works just ok, as 99% of yours here.

Maybe the whole series is corrupt, that would answer why SE is not commenting these problems.
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Posted: 2011-01-15 21:09:57
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jms2367 Posts: 302

wow! my unit came w/ a usb cable. but as i posted above i do get also some wb problems. well from what i know, the cam driver weighs the scenes wb in auto settings and at times interprets it wrongly. but nah, you know all the answers anyway so there is no point in making a point. (that does not sound right ). also, i really do not know much about photography since this is only a phone and my other camera is just a point and shoot.

i guess you know that much about photography and thanks for enlightening us who are just mere mortals here in esato.

btw, what dslr are you using since you seem to be well versed in this subject?
[ This Message was edited by: jms2367 on 2011-01-16 01:42 ]

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Posted: 2011-01-16 02:39:19
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urednik Posts: 11

Well I just suggested. I do not know where they really produce those phones (might very well be that it is not only in one factory).

I use mainly Nikon D series, however I do not own any serious lenses, so I kinda borrow them.
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Posted: 2011-01-16 12:16:33
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zAlbee Posts: 33

If you think you have a defective phone, just return or exchange it. No amount of complaining here will solve your problem; many of us simply use Auto settings and are not hiding any secret to producing good pictures. The night photo of the Simpsons Ride is using full auto, no EV adjustment.

I agree that the below photo shows your camera has a problem, but because of the low saturation, not because of white balance. Maybe a weak sensor, I do not know. You might have gotten a bad batch.



I think your outdoor photo looks fine, though I believe you that it is cooler than real life, and I think your baby photo looks great! I have noticed some of my photos with cooler than expected colours as well, but I think they still look good. Don't forget not all monitors are equal either. I am viewing this on a ViewSonic VT2300LED (23" WLED-backlit monitor) which has really great, vibrant colours.

Digital colour reproduction is non-trivial. Even in real life, objects look different in different lighting. So your camera software has to guess. Add to that not all equipment is perfect at sensing or producing RGB light. You can try calibrating your monitor's colour temperature, though I have found it does not help very much if my monitor is not that good to begin with. In the cases where the software did a bad job of guessing the white balance, Photoshop is a great tool. There is so much software post-processing done already, so I do not think it is cheating. (but I will tell you if I use it )
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Posted: 2011-01-17 09:19:18
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