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Yes, you abide by the laws of the country, but only up to the point where it does not conflict with God's (Allah's) word.
Everyone is responsible for themselves- so how can you, a Muslim, give money to a power that is invading a Muslim country and killing citizens of that country, and then say "well, I have to follow the law- its their fault"
You can't put man's laws above God's, can you?
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Posted: 2005-09-16 23:50:15
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Mans law cannot be place above Gods law, thats true. But we must live in Peace and follow the laws of the land as well as the religious law. But one thing we should all remember, the country may have a leader and a law but that country belongs to the creator of mankind Almighty Allah. Whatever he wills he can do and whatever he decides is final for he is our creator and sustainer.
Verse 255 from Chapter 2 states:
Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what appeareth to His creatures as before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme in glory.
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Posted: 2005-09-17 00:05:24
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Yes, thats all very well, but you pay tax (I presume) - so can I also presume that you don't believe the invasion of Iraq to be against God's law?
Because if the invasion is wrong, i.e., against God's law, then as a Muslim you would be obliged to place God's law ABOVE the country's law, and thus not help pay for the invasion... right?
What I'm asking is, do you believe the invasion of Iraq to be contrary to God's law?
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Posted: 2005-09-17 00:14:09
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I don't think what's happening in Iraq is right and many things this government do is wrong but as i am British i must follow the british colony and rules. Like i said before what they do with my money they will be questioned for on the day of judgement.
At the same time, i am not breaking Gods law as i am following the laws of the land and the laws of Islam without fail. I am not the one killing innocent lives and i am not the one who makes the country go to war. I pay my Tax and will do all my life but that does not mean i am breaking Gods law.
@pleber, can you tell me what the bible says about kiling innocent humans like what the british and americans are doing in Iraq?
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Posted: 2005-09-17 00:43:09
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@pleber
The taxes that we pay also go towards the NHS, which heals the sick. Our taxes also go towards giving aid to poor countries. Taxes fund many things, both good and bad.
The government does things, which are not in keeping with my beliefs, but that does not mean that my beliefs should be followed to the letter when there are approximately sixty million other people to think of on this island. This isn't a theocracy, one is British first and religious second, one is expected to obey the secular law first and foremost.
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Posted: 2005-09-17 03:35:51
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Well said @scotsboyuk.
More information on the life of The Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):
The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the greatest charitable man. His charity during Ramadan was greatest. Nothing could prevent him from it. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated the qualities of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) and said: His hand of charity of spread to its utmost and his tongue was the most truthful. His conduct was the most modest and he was the most honourable in lineage. Fear struck one who saw him first. Whoever mixed with him loved him. One who praised man begged something to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) in the name of Islam and it was given to him. He begged him something further and it was also given to him, and that was one flock of sheep which were grazing between two hillocks. He went to his people and said: Accept Islam because Muhammad gives so much that he does not fear poverty for that. He did never deprive one who begged something from him.
Once 10,000 dirhams were brought to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) which he distributed among his companions. After that, a man came to him and begged him something. He said: I have got now nothing, but still I am giving you something after purchasing it. It was done accordingly. Omar (Radhiallahho Anho) said: O Messenger of Allah, Allah has not imposed burden on you over which you have got no control. His words did not appear pleasing to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam). That man said: Spend and do not fear poverty from Allah. The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) then smiled and pleasure was visible in his face. Once when he returned from the battlefield of Hunain, the desert Arabs came to him and begged from him so much that he was compelled to take shelter to a corner of a tree. They caught his sheet and he said: Give back my sheet to me. Had I had sheep to the number of these thorny plants, I would have distributed them all to you and you would not have found me a miser or a coward.
More on the character of the final prophet can be found
HERE
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Posted: 2005-09-17 12:26:58
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Quote:
On 2005-09-17 03:35:51, scotsboyuk wrote:
@pleber
The taxes that we pay also go towards the NHS, which heals the sick. Our taxes also go towards giving aid to poor countries. Taxes fund many things, both good and bad.
The government does things, which are not in keeping with my beliefs, but that does not mean that my beliefs should be followed to the letter when there are approximately sixty million other people to think of on this island. This isn't a theocracy, one is British first and religious second, one is expected to obey the secular law first and foremost.
I know one is 'expected' to obey the law over all else, but that's men's expectations, not God's. God expects you to obey him FULLY and FOREMOST, and then obey the law of the land etc.
I know our tax goes to good things as well as bad, but if the bad things are murder, do you really expect God approves you paying it? Would you give to a charity that killed one person for every hundred it helped?
I mean, when we meet God to be judged, are you going to say 'well, yeah I did those things, but I'm a British subject First, you come in second...'?
But I take your point and agree with you that we should pay taxes even if we know that some of it will be used to evil... I was just wondering what the opinions you people were
@Peterkay
"@pleber, can you tell me what the bible says about killing innocent humans like what the British and Americans are doing in Iraq? "
The bibles says it’s wrong obviously - but in a time of war innocents gets killed. The blood lies on the people who have caused the war. So the real question is, who's fault is it that we are at war? The British/Americans? The Saddam regime? The Arab league? It's a hard question...
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Posted: 2005-09-17 17:12:34
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@pleber, i'd like to hear actual quotes from the bible please.
Just curious of what it states?
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Posted: 2005-09-17 17:30:53
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The Holy Prophet Muhammad's manners when eating (Peace be upon him):
The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) eat whatever he got. To him, the best food was what all partook of. When the dining cloth was spread, he used to say: In the name of Allah, O Allah, make it a sift to express gratefulness that there might be gifts in paradise. Whenever the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) sat to eat, he used to sit as praying man sits, not placing one leg upon another and say: I am a mere servant, I eat as a servant eats. He used not to take any hot food and said: There is no grace in it and Allah will not feed us with fire, so make this food cold. He used to eat whatever was presented to him with three fingers with the help of the fourth finger at times. Once a tiffin made of clarified butter, honey and wheat presented to him. He eat it and said: How good it is. He used to eat bread, curry, dates and salt. Of all the fresh fruits, the dearest to him was grapes, cucumber and water melon.
He used to eat gourd with bread and sugar and sometimes with dates. His ordinary meal consists of dates and water. Sometimes he mixed milk with dates. Meat was his most favourite curry. He said: Meat increase the power of hearing and is the king of foods in this world and the next. Had I prayed to my lord for eating meat everyday, He would have granted it. He used to eat cooked meat with gourd. He liked gourd and said: It is the fruit of a plant of my brother Jonah. The prophet said to me: O Ayesha (Radhiallahho Anha) when you cook meat, mix therewith much water as it makes the broken hearted strong. He used to eat the meat of hunted birds but he did not himself hunt or follow game.
He used to eat bread with butter and like goats neck and thigh. He liked gourd among curries, vinegar condiment, dried dates among dates. He prayed for three things and said: These have come from paradise and they are medicines for poison and insomnia. He liked among curries creepers of yellow newer and carrot. He disliked the meat of reservoir of urine. He did not eat several things of goat genital organ, female organ, blood, urinal meat, goitre, gall bladder, etc. He did not eat onion and garlic, nor condemned them. He used to eat what he liked and did not eat what he did not like. He did not like to eat the meat of lizard and cockroach, neither did he prohibit them to be eaten. He used to lick up his dish with his hand and said: Most blessing is in the remnants of food.
He used to lick up his fingers after meal so much so that they assumed reddish hue. He used not to cleanse his hands with towel till he licked up his fingers well and said: Nobody knows in which food there is blessing. When he finished his meal, he used to say: O Allah, for Thee is all praise. You have given me food and drink and given me satisfaction. So praise to Thee without expiation and farewell and being not free there from. He was accustomed to wipe his hand well and then wash his hands and mouth with excess water and take the name of Allah each time. He used to drink water in slow degrees and not hastily in one breath. He used not to blow breath in the cup of water at the time of drinking and supply food to one by his side.
Once he was given milk and honey mixed together but he refused to drink it saying: Two drinks at the same time and two curries at the same time! He said: I don't make them unlawful but I consider them bad for rendering accounts on the resurrection day as they are additional things in this world. I like modesty and Allah raises up one who humbles himself for Allah. He lived in his house more bashful than an unmarried girl. He used not to order for preparation of any food and eat whatever was given to him and remain silent if not given.
What a great man he was, appreciated every little bit and praised Almighty Allah every step of the way.
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Posted: 2005-09-18 01:35:27
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Your absolutely right peter_kay, I've taken the lazy route and not quoted any
of the Bible.. my apologises...
Regarding giving taxes and living by the law of the
country but also living by God's law, here's
Mark Ch. 12 v 14-17
[
14] And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou
art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but
teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute (taxes) to
Caesar, or not?
[15] Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said
unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
[16] And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and
superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
[17] And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are
Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Here's a few others...
Regarding how we might enter heaven
John 3 v 16
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Acts 16 v 31
And they said, Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Why cant we get to heaven by following God's teachings and
doing good deeds?
Ephesians 2 v 8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that
not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Isaiah 64 v 6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses
are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,
like the wind, have taken us away.
To cut a longish story short- We are
all sinners. God is righteous so he CANNOT ignore the sin- it HAS to be
accounted for. But God loves us so He sent his Son to Pay the price for our sins
and make us clean again. And those that accept Jesus Christ as the one who took
away their sins are saved and are made clean so they can enter heaven. There is
no sin in heaven and God cannot allow sin in heaven, so unless a person allows
Christ to suffer for their sins and be made clean, he cannot enter heaven.
It's a very simple message- and is
for everyone.
If you have any questions- I can't
promise anything, but I'll try to answer...
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Posted: 2005-09-18 02:17:16
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