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Its not a counter argument for uiq3. Its just to highlight that se has and will make mistakes just like beloved nokia and all the rest. You just have to get used to it, like you have for others.
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Posted: 2007-09-29 23:52:29
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@Dogmann
It shouldn't matter if it's manufactered by matsushita, the fact that it is used in a Nokia device means it is Nokia's responsibility just as other components in their devices are from external sources right?
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Posted: 2007-09-30 00:09:22
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Hi all

OK could one of you please explain to me where this ridiculous idea that i think or say Nokia are perfect and don't have any problems or make any mistakes has come from as it i have never said anything as ridiculous any where ever and even i am sick of having to repeat this.

I said quite clearly that i accepted some people with N93 had problems especially before the first 2 updates, some even had them after the updates to but this was a relatively small number and i was one of the lucky ones that didn't.

I also accepted that some peoples N95's had various build quality and even software issues with the early realeased handsets. I had a later realeased version which was upgraded to V12 firmware and i had no problems and my build quality also was excellent. Which can be confirmed by the person that i sold it to.

So just where does all this BS come from that claims i say so many things i don't. The only criticism i give of SE is what they did with UIQ3 and the fact that they IMO they seriously need to update their specs in their other devices exactly as the have done in the K850. I am not the only one to say this either so what exactly is that in most of your opinions makes me so anti SE and biased for simply voicing MO about what is wrong and how things could be improved.

Having used SE and Ericsson devices for the majority of all my devices over the last 20 years odd and having used and loved my P910 nothing would give me more pleasure than to return to using a SE smart phone but currently they just don't fulfill my needs maybe and hopefully next year and the promised P990 true replacement will change that. But i certainly won't be an early adopter that's for sure i will wait and see what SE actually deliver as opposed to what they promise as currently my faith in SE is not what it was.

Marc

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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-02 03:44 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-30 00:39:44
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on one hand you say you are rightfully contemptous of SE, then the next you say you don't hate them? Hate, contempt, anger whatever you call it. On the weight of evidence of your posts, which I am not going to count for you, (it's obvious enough as it is) you are overly critical of SE but supportive of Nokia on issues of similiar "sins" against the consumer. You also often categorise people supporting SE as fanboys when they don't accept your argument.

I will be more careful in future to ensure I'm not imagining it, but nevertheless it's the strong impression I have from reading your posts in many threads on esato. Sure I could be imagining it, but perhaps you aren't aware of your bias either.


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Posted: 2007-09-30 08:47:08
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@MaxWedge

Sorry but i do not accept that i show an undue bias in my criticism of Nokia as proved by my above post where i acknowledge exactly what faults Nokia have especially as i have only been using them for just over a year. Unless you consider the fact that when people are talking of Nokia failings i point out how ever wrong that is it is only a small percentage of the devices sold not every unit.

Which also just happens to be the truth, i also say that there shouldn't be any faulty or defective devices and all manufacturers shouldn't release devices that need firmware updates so soon after release. But again as i have previously pointed out this is us the consumers fault as long as we accept this as normal practice none of the manufacturers are going to change this practice. Only if and when we all stopped accepting it and returned the devices until they reach the state they are in after a couple of firmware updates as they should be when sold will it change. Lets not kid ourselves no manufacturer cares about anything other than our money and if we continue spending it with them.


Also as i have stated before i own no Nokia shares don't receive free devices or even test equipment what loyalty do i owe them? it is the other way round IMO manufacturers owe loyalty to their customers. I consider myself an ultimate consumer, I buy what suits my needs at any given time and certainly not by the badge it carries as IMO that is not the way to make a wise buying decision ever.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-30 08:50 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-30 09:45:18
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In truth, I agree with you about putting the pressure back on the OEM. Why do you think I didn't buy a P990? It's too much money for something that's not perfect. For me, N95 is no better because it doesn't have a touchscreen.

I've seen you blast SE for having old technology, and get upset with people who try and defend SE's position, but I don't see you blasting Nokia for lack of touchscreen. Whenever people try and remind you of Nokia lack of touchscreen, you invariably say how irrelevant a touchscreen is. That's YOU making excuses for Nokia. It's just that touchscreen isn't important to you, so you dismiss this as a major failing on par with SE's lack of HSDPA or better video. This is the kind of bias I'm talking about. I don't think you are biased towards Nokia per se, it's more that I think you are biased towards your own experience and preferences. You often dismiss people who have different opinions, as if your opinions are based on logic and the opinions of anyone who disagree's with you are based on fanboyism.

How do you think I feel that Nokia consistantly refuse to cater to those who use touchscreens? Do you thihnk I wouldn't be interested in the N95 if it had a touchscreen? But no Nokia simply failed year after year to implement a viable touchscreen platform. Until they do I don't take their smartphones seriously, and are no better to me than SE's P990 piss-poor effort.

But when have I accused you of fanboyism for letting Nokia off the hook on the touchscreen issue? Never. Yet you have several times acused me of fanboyism and emotionalism for arguing that SE are concentrating on the mid range (which to me seems a perfectly logical thing to do to increase marketshare, an argument not in the least inspired by fanboyism but simply by undersatanding of marketing principles)

I never buy on badge either, but you obviously think I do. I don't think either of us are really biased when it comes down to it, but we are passionate about our particular requirements in a mobile phone. Currently my requirements are best met by SE, yours by Nokia. Maybe we just have to agree to disagree on somethings


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Posted: 2007-10-01 04:48:32
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@Max Wedge

This a completely different argument and i have again started many times and have said a touchscreen is only important if you want or feel you need one and seeing as more smart phones are sold without a touchscreen then with i really can't see how you can even try and suggest it is essential it may be to some but not all. A lot more users have smart phones that don't have touchscreens then those that do and surely if what you claim about them being essential was true that just wouldn't be the case would it?

So how you can claim this is a failing just because up to know Nokia have not really produced many touchscreen devices is unreasonable obviously until now it has been a conscience decision they have taken. Although they have produced a couple of Internet tablets that where touchscreens and are now readying there first S60 touchscreen device for release next year.

But to suggest i defend Nokia for a lack of touch screens is without merit as not everyone wants or needs a touch screen me included. Just because Nokia will have a touchscreen device doesn't mean i am suddenly going to decide i want a touchscreen again either as over the last year since using S60 i have grown to prefer not having a touchscreen my preference and not saying it has to be any one else's. I much prefer a full qwerty and a good range of both free and paid for apps to a touchscreen plus of course far greater visibility in all conditions and a much faster performing OS is now my preference. I even tried a TYTN after using S60 and it didn't even last a week as i just found the touchscreen to be unnecessary and a pain to use especially as it was summer outdoor use was painful.

Of course my opinions of what i want form my bias towards devices i seek anything else wouldn't make sense. I don't deny i see SE's failings in fitting the latest techs as a failing as IMO they are, and this is certainly not how it used to be either but when all around are implementing all this latest tech in even non smart phones its obvious what is missing especially as even so many SE users point it out to. Plus of course SE are now eventually starting to give some of their devices this much needed tech just IMO much to slowly and not in the devices that need them most their smart phone devices.

The only point i agree on yet again is that we both will need to accept that we will have to agree to disagree more often than not as very obviously we have very different opinions on these issues and nether are likely to persuade the other is right.

Marc



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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER



[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-02 03:48 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-01 20:17:12
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@masseur - you might as well just lock this thread as it's getting off topic...
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Posted: 2007-10-01 20:39:28
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And how is this different to any of the tech you complain that SE is not including? For example I and many others, as I see stated again and again in this forum, don't think the best video recording possible is an absolute requirement for a high end phone. Just as many people have no use for HSDPA (though that's changing quickly as networks around the world catch up). You keep refering back to your own preferences as if you are the sole barometer of consumer demand.


Actually there is a fair bit of evidence around the web that Nokia couldn't get touchscreens working reliably on symbian and that this is the real reason they haven't released one yet. Other than a few weak efforts that never saw any market success because they didn't work well or were limited in appeal (for example N800).


Yes, SE are starting to ramp up the tech, as I've been predicting they will once they feel more secure in the mid range market. So I guess all those mid-range Walkman phone sales to teenager's and young adults are paying off


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Posted: 2007-10-02 01:22:38
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sorry, but how is this relevant to petitioning to upgrade K850's video to VGA?
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Posted: 2007-10-02 02:25:22
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