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@amnesia
Yes I know, but I was expanding upon that to include my own beliefs since this thread is discussing religious beliefs.
@vanquish
If there you see someone who is dying of thirst would you give them water?
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Posted: 2005-09-21 16:29:43
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On 2005-09-21 14:05:01, vanquish wrote:
That is very biased. When i'm are dead, I'll be in heaven
I just think in my humble opinion (i mean it, no sarcasm) that islam is based around 'earning' your place in heaven. But surely, we cannot match up to Gods high standards? Therefore, christianity is not about getting to that level, which is impossible, but accepting that you can't and letting someone that can into your life, physically and mentally, and out of that comes deeds that please God. Thats my view...
What are your thoughts on that, thanks!
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-09-21 13:05 ]
My thoughts exactly Vanquish - I believe it is impossible to earn our way to heaven...
@Amnesia, I understand why you think good works is a perfectly reasonable way to get a place in heaven- I mean someone has to go to heaven, why not the good, right?
However, God is on a totally different level from us, so we are really really unfit to please God and earn our way to heaven. You take the best person you know of, and the worst person you know of... In the grand scale of things they are both INFINATLY not fit for heaven and guilty of sin (Even though in our eyes we see a big difference in the two). One might be better than the other, but we are all SO low and unworthy, that there’s no way some of us are good enough for heaven...
Another flaw on earning your way to heaven;
Where does the line be drawn?
If you earn your way to heaven then it must take a certain amount of 'goodness' on your part. But that means if you fall just below that level of 'goodness' you go to hell. So the difference between one person going to hell and the other heaven could balance on 1 sin- one bad thought or action... Just doesn't add up.
I believe the only way to get to heaven is to depend on Jesus to get you there. I'm certainly not going to depend on myself (what a nightmare!) to get me to heaven, but instead I'm going to depend on God's son, Jesus - Who is perfect and sinless.
Jesus died and suffered FOR my sins. ( 1 Peter 2 v 24: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed). The power of the statement "Jesus died for our sins" has been lost I think. People don't seem to realise that Jesus suffered and died as a direct punishment for our sins.. And because I trust in Him, then he died for my sins. When I die and stand before God, I'll be able to point to Christ Jesus and say- "Yes, I'm a sinner, and yes I deserve punishment, but Jesus has already took my punishment for me". Do you think God will make you suffer for the sins His Son has already suffered for? No- once is enough for God.
Salvation through faith is the only way that makes sense in my eyes. If I was doing good works and prayers and citations to get me to heaven, would I be doing these things to please God or would it be to avoid hell and work my way to heaven? If the only reason I did a good work was to avoid hell- it wouldn’t be a good work- it would be a selfish work.
Phew- long post!
What do the rest of you think about earning you way to heaven? Thanks
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Posted: 2005-09-21 19:53:15
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Earning your way to heaven is easy....
Just believe in One God and believe that Muhammad (pbuh) is the final messenger.
God almighty forgives any sin except worshipping another Gods as it mentions in The Holy Quran Chapter 4 Verse 116:
Allah forgiveth not The sin of joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away from the right.
So anyone can enter heaven, the doors arent closed friends.
Chapter 4 Verse 171 from The Glorious Quran states:
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was no more than an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: far exalted is He above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
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Posted: 2005-09-21 20:26:46
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@PeterKay
So anyone that believes Allah is the only God goes to heaven?
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:28:57
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Yes God is at a totally different level, but we can't compare ourselves to God, and until then we have to do as much good as possible.
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:34:29
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So the 9/11 Hi-Jackers are in heaven?
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:36:22
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On 2005-09-21 22:28:57, pleber wrote:
@PeterKay
So anyone that believes Allah is the only God goes to heaven?
Eventually yes if Allah wills. Belivinging in the Oneness of Allah also means to follow what the Holy Messenger and the Holy Quran. Allah will decide who goes to heaven or hell.
Verse 284 from Chapter 2 states:
To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, Allah Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for Allah hath power over all things.
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:38:11
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On 2005-09-21 22:36:22, pleber wrote:
So the 9/11 Hi-Jackers are in heaven?
How do you know they were Muslims? were you actually there?
A believer in Almighty Allah must follow the peaceful teachings of the Faith.
If they were Muslims who did it they MUST answer on the day when all mankind will be questioned for their short time on Earth.
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:41:13
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What if someone used to believe in Allah and the final prophet, but lost his/her faith and stopped believing, and then died?
Thanks
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:42:33
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Like it states above, Allah will decide as he is the best Judger.
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Posted: 2005-09-21 22:43:27
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