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@Pleber, please tell me what the bible says about punishment in the grave? and punishment in hell fire? What does it actually state?
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Posted: 2005-09-22 00:38:52
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Yes, God will punish our sins, that is true. However, because I believe in Jesus, my sins were punished 2000 years ago. Jesus took my punishment.
God cannot let sin go unpunished, so He punished His Son in my stead. That’s why I cannot understand other religions- who takes the punishment if there is no such thing as Gods Son?
That is unbelivable
i cannot believe what i have just read...
You are saying that Jesus (pbuh) took the punishment for your sins?
Why would God punish his
OWN SON? (by the way, us Muslims don't believe that Jesus is Gods Son).
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Posted: 2005-09-22 00:43:40
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i feel that if I was a Christian, I wouldn't feel right thinking that Jesus was punished for me.
If I was a bastard, I'd probably do nasty stuff and say screw it, Jesus took the wrap.
I have to correct you though.
We dont believe that Jesus is God's son. But we do believe that he has sons. We are all God's children.
"Then eventually everyone would be in heaven… right? "
If you truely believe in Islam and are not part of it just as a label, then yes you will go to heaven. not everyone though.
(however I have my own theories on this)
_________________
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Oxygen Mobile[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-09-21 23:45 ]
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Posted: 2005-09-22 00:43:56
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Chapter 3 Verses 59-60 States:
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
The Truth comes from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.
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Posted: 2005-09-22 00:47:14
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@peterkay - what the bible says about unbelievers;
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Also, about Jesus paying the price for my sin - YES!! That is what all Christianity is based upon! That is the linchpin of the Christian faith!!
Read this-
1 Peter 2 21-24
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
@am
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i feel that if I was a Christian, I wouldn't feel right thinking that Jesus was punished for me.
If I was a bastard, I'd probably do nasty stuff and say screw it, Jesus took the wrap.
Yes, we should feel like a bastard- and we should feel very very grateful for what Jesus did for us. God allowed his Son to be judged in our stead because he loves us so much. If you really are a believer, then I don’t think you would do bad things just because you know you are safe from judgment.
[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2005-09-22 00:04 ]
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:00:00
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So if Jesus (pbuh) took punishment for the Christians, why are you all created? So that means you can do any sin you wish and get away with it? That sounds ridiculous and hard to believe!
Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified and he will return before the day of judgement is what us Muslims believe and He is not Gods son, as i mentioned earlier:
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:05:34
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Almighty Allah raised Jesus (pbuh) and he will return before the Day of Judgement, He was not Crucified at all.
Verse 54-55 from Chapter 3 from The Glorious Quran states:
And the unbelievers plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of the falsehoods of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:12:24
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Chapter 19 titled Mary (may Allah be pleased with here) Verses 30-33 from The Holy Quran states what Jesus (pbuh) said:
He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
"He hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life again"!
For those who wish to Read the Whole chapter Mary (may Allah be pleased with here), it can be found
HERE
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"Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe"
Watch 'ISLAM CHANNEL' Live wherever you are in the world[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-09-22 00:19 ]
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:19:14
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He only died for those that believe in him. Real Christians do not go around doing what they like just because they can get away with it.. The fact that our sins are punished offers an explanation of where our sins go – where’s the Quran’s?
What do you mean why were we created?
It may sound ridiculous to you- but I believe it because it say's so in the Bible.
The Quran says different- but it was wrote by ONE man, who spent lot's of his time in the desert alone starving himself before his 'divine revelations' came to him. (hallucinations anyone?)
The Muslim faith is centred around one profit and what he says is divine revelation given to him by God (Allah). I would not like to be depending that to get me to heaven...
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but its just my view- same way as Christianity sounds ‘ridiculous’ to you…
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:25:10
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More on Jesus (pbuh). The Holy Quran - Verses 49-54 from Chapter 3 states:
"I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
"'I have come to you, to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was Before forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
"'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to the work of Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
Sorry to go on friends, but i just want you to know what the Holy Quran states about Jesus (peace be upon him).
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Also some interesting facts for us all:
The name Mary is mentioned in the Quran 34 times. Jesus is mentioned only once in sura "Mary", in verse 34 and it is the 19th mention of Jesus in the Quran. The name Mary is mentioned in sura 19, 3 times, in verses 16, 27 and 34. From the first mention in verse 16 to the last mention in verse 34 is 19 verses.
The first mention of Mary in the Quran is in 3:36 and the last mention is in 66:12 where Mary is called daughter of Imran. Sura 3 is the 89th sura revealed and sura 66 is the 107th sura revealed. From the revealed sura 89 to the revealed sura 107 is 19 suras.
The name Mary is mentioned in the Quran 34 times. Jesus is mentioned 25 times in the whole Quran. The first time Mary is mentioned in sura 19, it is the 25th time.
Both Adam and Jesus are mentioned 25 times in the Quran. Jesus is mentioned only once in sura "Mary", in verse 34 and it is the 19th mention of Jesus in the Quran. Adam is mentioned only once in sura 19, in verse 58 and it is the 19 th mention of Adam in the Quran. From verse 34 where Jesus is mentioned to verse 58 where Adam is mentioned, 25 verses (the number of times both Adam and Jesus are mentioned in the whole Quran.)
The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was. Ch3 V59
In 3:59, the mention of Adam and Jesus is the 7th time in the Quran.
The first time Adam is mentioned in the Quran is in 2:31. The first time Jesus is mentioned is in 2:87. Between verse 31 and verse 87 is 57 verses, 57 = 19 X 3 Where sura 19 is Mary and sura 3 is The Amramites ( Ali-'Imran), both related to Jesus' family.
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:31:42
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