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< Esato Forum Index > Sony Ericsson / Sony > Symbian phones > My "Official" P990i Firmware Update Quest Bookmark topic

Hi there,
I've been lurking on this forum for quite some time now, and I thought I'd entertain you all with details of my quest to find a more official way of getting the most out of my P990i.

My goal: the latest "Generic" firmware available (Organiser: CXC162036 R4B03).
I am currently on Vodafone in the UK, this means I have CXC162036 R3B01 (again, Organiser). Now, like many others I have read about on this forum, I experience rebooting and general lag on a daily basis on my P990i. I had this issue with a Nokia N91 quite some time ago; that went back. I liked it, but not enough to put up with it doing that all the time. Y'see, the P990i is different to me; I really like it and I genuinely want to keep it. This is why I have been prepared to jump through the hoops as you will read.

My story started with a call to Sony Ericsson. They advised me that an approved service center would be able to flash new firmware onto the device, and with the permission of my service provider (i.e. Vodafone) the service center would indeed be able to place the firmware of my choice (i.e. the VERY latest) onto the handset. A promising start!

Next, Vodafone.

I related my story so far to the advisor, and he said with almost no hesitation "Okay, I hereby give you permission". Excellent, except I would presumably need to prove it to the service centre. I asked them to put that in writing to me in the post, after all, I am going to all the trouble of getting my phone repaired personally, I could ask them to do it!
Customer Service Blokey: "Erm, slight problem there sir, we don't send out letters for that sort of thing"
Me: "Oh, okay...well how can I prove the permission you're giving me to the service centre, as per Sony Ericsson's advice?"
Customer Service Blokey: "Umm, well I could send you an email?"
Me: "That's kind, but I could just mock up a Vodafone email and forward it myself; I guess you could say it doesn't really prove anything."
Customer Service Blokey: "Well, neither does a letter really. You could forge that also."

He had a point. How could I prove this?
Leaving this dilemma aside for a moment, I pursued the next stage: the service center. Sony Ericsson referred me to a company called Kuehne Nagel in Banbury. I called them and they said in no uncertain terms that they: "...are not allowed to debrand handsets...". Wow, I guess that is what I am asking for, albeit indirectly. So, what's going on here? I'm getting conflicting information.

I went back to Vodafone.
I reported the phone as faulty, making sure to say that Sony Ericsson had diagnosed the firmware as being at fault (I mentioned a couple of bugs I've noticed, for example, alarms that won't go away), and I also said that they recommended a firmware update to the latest available globally. Vodafone have offered me a replacement handset "...with the latest firmware...". Guess what? I've already got that!

My contention is this; Vodafone only provide a handset with a set (old) firmware. The upshot of this is that the phone is largely unusable due to excessive downtime, requires constant vigilance (it reboots, and sits there waiting for your PIN!) and plain just doesn't work as it should in terms of some of the features. Yet Vodafone doesn't seem to understand that when you've been from pillar to post, learning all the while about the background to these problems; learning from qualified Sony Ericsson staff that categorically say you need better firmware, and then they still require you to accept replacement handsets that will only have the same firmware on them.

Vodafone's policy is to look into offering a completely different handset type after 3 or 4 replacements of the same original handset type; I went through this with my Nokia N91, very frustrating and time wasting.

Service providers like Vodafone could be losing out big time in this way. Losing money on replacement handsets, and the logistics of that. Losing faith in the brand, because of the end-to-end user experience, although I may have gone further than most!

I could download software or visit certain shops to change the CDA on my handset, but I don't want to risk my warranty if something goes wrong, and besides, a less-informed user who might not have the acumen to research this type of thing on the net and doesn't have the technical ability to perform these kinds of modifications are completely left in the dark.

This post was a lot longer than I had set out to write, but I feel strangely peaceful now. Maybe I needed to get it off of my chest!

CotH
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Posted: 2007-02-28 18:17:23
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This was like my discussion with Orange, but in the end I bowed and debranded. What are you planning to do next?
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Posted: 2007-02-28 19:21:10
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I'm between a rock and a hard place really. All I can do on the official front is either put up with it, or go down the arduous and predictable route of accepting handset after handset until they agree to swap it for something else. The trouble is that, as I said, I actually quite like it, and I don't know what other smartphone would do as a replacement. How did you do yours? I might contact Watchdog or Trading Standards... Maybe I will debrand on the sly.
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Posted: 2007-02-28 21:05:05
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quit being a pussy and debrand it for £4. How many P990's have been reported as hardware failed on here? zero that I know of.
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Posted: 2007-02-28 23:04:28
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[ This Message was edited by: def_gn on 2009-02-06 02:29 ]
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Posted: 2007-02-28 23:45:23
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You have to debrand it ....

It is a very simple process that an idiot could do ..... even I managed it
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Posted: 2007-03-01 00:35:16
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I, even working for Vodafone, debranded mine using software Honestly don't worry about warrenty, I doubt our repair center would even notice. Or to be very safe, change the CDA back to the Vodafone one before sending your handset for repair
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Posted: 2007-03-01 02:01:10
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I think you have to be a little practical here. Voda I am sure will be happy to agree for you to have the latest firmware - the latest Voda branded firware that is! I think we would all be in a state of shock if Voda wrote you a letter saying they are happy for you to have the phone debranded.

Surely the time / money / effort in speak to SE and Voda is worth the cost of debranding and the small risk of your phone developing a fault AND you finding NO service centre that will fix it because it has been debranded. So debrand the phone and get the stability / features you deserve. Unless Voda have some new firmware in the pipeline and you want to wait - any inside knowlegde Sainty?

Perhaps if those of us in the UK all write of OFCOM requesting the ability to debrand (in the same way Operators are forced to unlock), we might eventually get an official method of debranding. Just a thought.
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Posted: 2007-03-01 02:14:25
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Guy H, def_gn, kradcliffe & Sainty:
Thanks for the brutal honesty! No really, I am a little reluctant to try debranding, but only because it's an unknown. I'm always messing around with tech and trying odd things with it, and I'm always reluctant then, but I still wade in! Besides, the point of this was to investigate the "official" route, without invalidating any of my statutory rights. Consider it journalism if you like. Wouldn't you like the option to have the best working tech you could have, without having to resort to relatively underhand means and the worry you're invalidating your warranty?

tedx:
Voda I am sure will be happy to agree for you to have the latest firmware - the latest Voda branded firmware that is!
The person (or people, I asked to speak to a supervisor also) I spoke to on the call I described before actually said I should get the latest firmware if that would solve the problem, even if that meant effectively debranding. They were prepared to send an email to this effect, but I told them not to bother as I didn't think it would prove anything to anyone. Furthermore to this, I asked them why they would seemingly be acting contrary to normal policy, and why aren't they telling every P990i owner this. They said that debranding "would not be for every customer" but "a few might need to". By "few" she must mean those not willing to put up with bugs!

As for writing to OFCOM; I've never been able to work out if we own our phones once a service provider hands them over at the start of a contract.
My rational brain says "Yes", because ultimately they would not directly try to seize the handset in the event of you not paying; they would take your debt down the normal channels of cash recovery via debt collection. Even in that case, they are far more likely to want your TV and hi-fi than your phone. So I guess we do own it after all, so why should I not have whatever software I want on the phone? After all, my warranty is really with the manufacturer; the service provider just provides a layer of customer care when they accept faulty handsets.
If we take the example to a different industry, say PC operating systems, Microsoft have been fined millions of dollars for being perceived to be directing their customers to their own services; they have been judged to be generating more business to themselves at the expense of other companies software and actual cold hard functionality. The average PC user doesn't always realise there is more choice out there than Microsoft, and just settles for what is provided by default.
In my case, Vodafone's insistance on using outdated firmware for the sake of a bit of branding, and herding me towards their own branded services whenever I go to my web browser, forces the less tech savvy user into thinking that is the extent of the mobile web.

Vodafone would probably defend this by saying that all their MMS and SMS settings are preloaded onto the phone, making this a little easier on the user. However, if you mess around in there and change something, or delete them entirely, you can get them sent to the handset anyway. So why not set up an auto message when the phone is first activated to provide this?
The user experience is defined by the bad things, and the user is more prepared to put up with difficulties and complication once at the start than persistant troubles over a longer period. Okay, that's my opinion, but does anyone disagree?

[ This Message was edited by: coth on 2007-03-01 09:42 ]
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Posted: 2007-03-01 10:34:45
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Useful tidbit: if you buy your handset on O2 contract at the Carphone Warehouse, it's always an unlocked, unbranded variant.
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Posted: 2007-03-01 11:22:12
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