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Hi there, I'm new here.
Just quickly: I have a Treo 270, and soon I'll replace it... Either with a Treo 650, or a 910. If someone knows both the 910 and the Treo 600 (as we know, the 650 isn't out yet), I'd appreciate any specific pointers.
I know a lot about my Treo and also the new one(s). However, I know hardly anything about the 900 or the 910, even though I've read a lot. Some very important details are still missing.
I'd really like to have someone answer the following questions about the 910. There are a lot of them, I know, but if you know the answers to these, you may be able to write a comparison that could be useful for a lot of people.
Here's what I look for in such a device:
(1) Ability to write fast and effectively, and also edit, copy and paste and and save text.
The Treo isn't bad at this, though the Memo app has a very stupid text length limit. Pressing "shift" and navigating with the keys won't select the text, as it would on a PC... I guess the 910 doesn't have that either.
(a) Which of the two platforms are better for typing and word processing in general? Whose keypad is better?
(b) Is that Word compatibility app that ships with the 910 a full version, or just a demo?
(c) Is there a good text editor that lets me take notes or even write long things on the 910? Writing is my hobby, and I tend to do it away from a computer.
(d) Can you copy and paste text across applications in the 910?
(2) Web browsing.
My Treo 270 is already pretty good at that, with improvements in the 600 and on their way in the 650. How does the 910 stack up?
(a) Can you browse most web sites?
(b) Can you download stuff?
(3) Contacts and phone options.
(a) A very important feature in the Treo is the ability to just start typing a name and being able to call the person after a few characters are entered. Can the 910 match this? Can you also search for company name and other fields?
(b) Can you match custom ringtones or pictures for all contacts? The Treo 600 has some stupid limitation there.
(c) In general, one would expect the 910 to be a better, more full-featured phone (let's forget that it's also a PDA) than the Treo, as Sony-Ericsson is a phone company, while Handspring and PalmOne are new to this industry. Am I right in assuming this?
(4) SMS messaging
This is very important for me. I send a lot of SMS messages, and would like to keep them all.
(a) Does the 910 store my messages, both incoming and outgoing?
(b) Can I organize my messages in folders? The Treo can't do that, and I really hate that.
(5) File management
Now, this is my pet peeve with the Treo. Palm OS has no freakin' file system. If I create a document (like a text note), there's no way to put that on my computer except through that idiotic operation called 'Syncing.' I just want the device to appear on my desktop, and I want to be able to browse its file system from my computer.
(a) Can you mount the 910 on your PC and upload/download files using the PC's File Manager?
(b) Can you do the same with a Mac?
(6) System, multitasking and Internet
(a) Can an application be running in the background while I do something else? With the Treo, only one app can be running. If you switch to another, oit will be terminated.
(b) Can I have an e-mail client running all the time, immediately notifying me when I get new e-mail?
(c) Can I download and send attachments, move them to/from the computer?
(d) Can I use the 910's file system like on a computer, i.e. double-click documents and thus bring up applications, move files between folders, etc.?
(e) Are there FTP and SSH clients available for the 910?
As you see, I don't care that much about the built-in cam (I have a Canon PowerShot A60 on me all the time), or about games. I want a good phone with great contact management; a device that gets me online (so I can browse the web and use e-mail); and as importantly, a writing tool. I want to be able to access my files on it from a Mac as well.
Thanks a lot,
András
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Posted: 2004-10-07 03:04:16
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Why not download the Symbian UIQ emulator and see for yourself some of your above questions.
http://www.uiq.com, or
http://www.symbian.com
(b) Is that Word compatibility app that ships with the 910 a full version, or just a demo?
I believe QuikOffice ships with P910 and it is microsoft office compatible, i believe.
(c) Is there a good text editor that lets me take notes or even write long things on the 910? Writing is my hobby, and I tend to do it away from a computer.
There is a jotter. However, QuikOffice has a word processor.
(d) Can you copy and paste text across applications in the 910?
Yes
(2) Web browsing.
Pxxx uses Opera,
http://www.opera.com . You can download and go to any site - even at their original full size ( scroll bars horizontal / vertical become visible).
You down download.
(3) Contacts and phone options.
You can type the first word and a list of names appear.
Also, you have tabs which contain several letters for each tab.
You can search too - in all fields, and name & company
(b) Can you match custom ringtones or pictures for all contacts? The Treo 600 has some stupid limitation there.
You can assign ringtons and pictures to contacts individually.
(c) In general, one would expect the 910 to be a better, more full-featured phone (let's forget that it's also a PDA) than the Treo, as Sony-Ericsson is a phone company, while Handspring and PalmOne are new to this industry. Am I right in assuming this?
SE uses the Symbian OS ( the #1 smartphone OS today by large margin).
Symbian OS offers full PDA functionality. it is has been around for YEARS.
(before symbian it was EPOC - Psion which made EXCELLENT PDAs.
(4) SMS messaging
(a) Does the 910 store my messages, both incoming and outgoing?
Yes
(b) Can I organize my messages in folders? The Treo can't do that, and I really hate that.
Organize - how? You can organise in categories.
(5) File management
Symbian has a file system that you can navigate on the phone, via BlueTooth and on your PC.
(a) Can you mount the 910 on your PC and upload/download files using the PC's File Manager?
Yes.
(6) System, multitasking and Internet
(a) Can an application be running in the background while I do something else? With the Treo, only one app can be running. If you switch to another, oit will be terminated.
Symbian is a multiasking OS, and has always been. P910 has better task switching ability than P900 I think. On P900 some apps you could switch, others you could not.
(b) Can I have an e-mail client running all the time, immediately notifying me when I get new e-mail?
You can schedule Mail to retrieve your email, Mail does not have to be open.
(c) Can I download and send attachments, move them to/from the computer?
Yes
(d) Can I use the 910's file system like on a computer, i.e. double-click documents and thus bring up applications, move files between folders, etc.?
Yes.
(e) Are there FTP and SSH clients available for the 910?
Yes
I have a P900, any questions relating specifically to P910 I've not answered.
Hope these answers help.
[ This Message was edited by: stewart01 on 2004-10-07 02:44 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-07 03:40:34
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Thanks a lot. I couldn't find the emulator, though.
A friend has a 800. If I play around with that one, will I get a good idea about the 910?
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Posted: 2004-10-07 03:49:40
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The emulator is apart of the development kit.. it can be a tad difficult to get going depending on your abilities...
However, if you can use the real thing - P800, that would be better of course Remember though - the P800 isn't a P910.. I think the performance on the P900 and P910 are better, but I don't think the software has changed much - the task switching definitely has.
Why don't you go into a shop that sells a P910 and ask to have a play around with the demo model - assuming there are any near you.
[ This Message was edited by: stewart01 on 2004-10-07 03:16 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-07 04:15:10
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It's not on sale in Hungary yet -- but I think that friend of mine can get a test unit, he has some friends at the local Sony-Ericsson company.
If I can get my hands on one of these, I think I'll post how I feel it stacks up against the Treo.
I really don't have the time to play with the developer kit. I guess it's also Windows only, which is a problem.
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Posted: 2004-10-07 15:05:36
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Okay. I've got the phone. I love it. These are my responses to my questions (in case someone else's interested). Some are missing, as they were answered already, and I can't really add to those.
(1) Ability to write fast and effectively, and also edit, copy and paste and and save text.
(a) Which of the two platforms are better for typing and word processing in general? Whose keypad is better?
Well, the Treo is definitely better. The SE's keypad is smaller and not backlit. But it's usable! I actually find it okay. As for the backlighting: if I can't see any of the keys, I'll tilt it up a bit (so it's half closed) and see it by the light of the screen. But you can learn to type without seeing anything; there aren't that many keys.
What's bothering me, though, is the way apps (and Symbian in general) ignore the keyboard. I want keyboard shortcuts! Also menu items! Everything should be either of the two, I don't want to tap stupid buttons on the screen. Keep them as a redundancy, but make everything a menu and also a keyboard shortcut.
Also, a lot of Treo apps use autocomplete. Web addresses, for example. Or, if you begin typing in the "company" field of a contact, it will offer auto-completed choices. Not the 910, and it's a pity.
By the way, using the jog dial for menu access and choosing "OK" is a nice touch.
(c) Is there a good text editor that lets me take notes or even write long things on the 910? Writing is my hobby, and I tend to do it away from a computer.
Jotter is fine, it even works in flip closed mode, using MultiTap or T9. However, I miss navigation very much. That's the single worst shortcoming of the phone. I want to go back a character, or a word... Nope. I need to tap. Strangely enough, the Messages app is an exception. That's the only one where I can use the jog dial to go back and forth in text.
But still, the next version of this phone needs five-way text navigation and keyboard shortcuts. Then it will be peerless.
(2) Web browsing.
My Treo 270 is already pretty good at that, with improvements in the 600 and on their way in the 650. How does the 910 stack up?
It kicks ass! It rocks. It's a billion times better. Multiple windows in Opera?! Enough said. You can set pages to fit screen width if you want. A web page looks like on a computer screen. Only major complaint: Opera sometimes becomes totally nonresponsive. It does that on a Mac too, so it must be some design flaw.
(3) Contacts and phone options.
(a) A very important feature in the Treo is the ability to just start typing a name and being able to call the person after a few characters are entered. Can the 910 match this?
Well, it works... But only in flip closed mode, with multitap!!!!!
With the flip open, no such luck. You only have the inferior tabs. The keyboard is dead, useless. Some MAJOR oversight here.
Can you also search for company name and other fields?
Only in flip open mode, with an explicit search. Search results show up in a window that's kind of silly: you tap one result, and the window is dismissed forever. This is true of all searches, and is annoying as hell. That results window should be more persistent. Still better than whatever the Treo had.
(c) In general, one would expect the 910 to be a better, more full-featured phone.
It is, too. With the flip closed, it's like any cellphone. And it sometimes helps not to be weird like the Treo. Dialing, call management, mic muting, speed dial, etc... They are all better. The only thing a Treo does better is finding contacts by entering characters of the name; see above.
Reception seems better too.
(4) SMS messaging
This is very important for me. I send a lot of SMS messages, and would like to keep them all.
(b) Can I organize my messages in folders? The Treo can't do that, and I really hate that.
Yes, great news.
What I didn't expect, though, was that it's more difficult to start typing an SMS with the 910 than with the Treo! With the Treo, you push a dedicated button, press "New" on the screen, and up comes a list of recent recipients... Or you choose a contact... And begin typing. With the 910, you choose "Messages" (jog dial up, up, push), then "Create SMS" (Button 1), then you need to "Add recipient" via the contacts dialog. With the flip open, it's a lot of tapping. But no biggie.
5) File management
(a) Can you mount the 910 on your PC and upload/download files using the PC's File Manager?
(b) Can you do the same with a Mac?
NO. NOT WITH A MAC!!!!!!! How stupid is that? I really hope someone writes a Mac driver.
I can live with this, though. I can send files via Bluetooth (and arrange them in folders afterwards), or I can copy them to the extra memory card, and connect that to the Mac. I've tried the former, works like a charm. I haven't tried the latter yet.
(6) System, multitasking and Internet
(a) Can an application be running in the background while I do something else? With the Treo, only one app can be running. If you switch to another, oit will be terminated.
It's funny. SE claims in the manual that launching a new app will terminate the ones already running. But it's a goddamn lie! Every app takes a bit long to launch (half a second or so), but then it keeps running in the background, and the next time you bring it forward, it takes no time. Unless an app is really busy or hung, you can always switch to another one, and work in that. This is pretty impressive multitasking.
There are little informative icons at the bottom of the screen (in flip open mode): signal strength, Bluetooth, new messages, GPRS, sound volume, clock, and battery. Tapping any of these will bring up some dialog with more info and options (lock the screen, turn off the antenna to enter "Flight Mode," disconnect GPRS, set the clock, etc.), and these ALWAYS work, impressively, even when hung. This is rarely even true with a desktop OS like Windows or Mac OS.
By the way, that small clock icon is just an icon. It has two hands, yet it doesn't show the real time. You need to tap on it to see the time. It would be cool if it could show the actual time... And I don't think it would be that hard to write, either.
(b) Can I have an e-mail client running all the time, immediately notifying me when I get new e-mail?
The shortest interval for automatic mail checking is 15 minutes. But that's okay. A shorter interval would drain the batteries anyway. The message app will run in the background, the screen will light up, but if you're working in another app, you may hardly notice a thing. Dialogs sometimes come up, but not always.
All in all, this is an excellent phone. Its features (screen quality, multitasking, Bluetooth, the OS, etc.) beat the hell out of any Treo, even including the upcoming 650. I hope that the next version will integrate the keyboard more fully, and some usability tweaks would also be nice.
The 910 is a better device. That's the bottom line for me.
[ This Message was edited by: puiz on 2004-11-24 00:23 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-24 01:20:24
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Just come to the P910i from a Treo 600 and I have to say that in terms of software the Treo is far ahead much better than the P910i, more intuitive and with much better keyboard implementation.
In most apps the keyboard is completely dumb and useless apart from when you enter a text field. There are no cursor keys which means you have to keep whipping out the stylus. As another user mentioned the P910 keyboard is not backlit and the keys are not very tactile so they're not very comfortable for long messages.
Another irritant is the fact that even when you are in a number field (e.g. tel number) you have to remember to switch the keyboard to numerical otherwise you will fill it with letters... Finally the SMS is not in the chat style (like Treo) so you will miss that if you are used to it.
All in all the P910i disapoints in some areas but makes up for in others e.g. I'm still thrilled that I can watch a decent quality 90 minute film (Shrek) in widescreen and it only takes up 50MB.
I personally would stay away from the new Treo 650 for now because there are potential memory problems to do with cluster sizes which may result is a potential recall (see Treocentral)
Carlos
[ This Message was edited by: brainwashington on 2004-11-24 22:06 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-24 22:58:19
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Hehehe.. dude...
Like anything it's a question of getting used to it. I migrated off a Treo 270 onto a P800 myself a couple of weeks ago.
All I'll say is you'll miss the thumbpad. The P800 does everything else better and faster than the Treo. Add to that the replaceable battery on the P800 against the irreplaceable battery on the 270, the P800 flip which is usable against the biscuit strength flip on the Treo and the colour that stays on the P800 against the flaking plastic-model grade paintjob of the Treo and what you have is a no-brainer upgrade.
My advice, as a guy who has also experienced the Treo 270, is sell it as QUICKLY as you can before the flip breaks (it will certainly break it's just a matter of time) and the battery dies (a new battery will last about 6 months at the most). Both these items are very costly return-to-service centre items and will render your 270 next to worthless as a trade-in or something to sell.
I can safely say that in my entire LIFE, the Treo 270 was about the worst purchase of any kind I ever made. I can also say that as far as hardware upgrades go, moving from Treo 270 to P800 is comparable only to moving from Windows ME to OSX.
And that's P800..... if the P900 is significantly better..... well all I can say is I guess you'll be one happy customer.
I know I haven't answered your questions but please please believe me.... they're not important. The Treo (in 270 form factor) is a non-starter as a mobile IT tool. It's got good software and the thumbpad which you will weep for once you're on a P900 but everything is just negated by the breaking flip, the toy battery and the dismal service (I'm in Malaysia and I have to send my Treo to SINGAPORE to have either the flip or the battery replaced) of PalmOne/Handspring.
Just get rid of it fast dude..... and get your P900 fast.
DIRAVI
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Posted: 2004-11-25 17:14:06
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