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I would use FinderCleaner to handle the task of ejecting the drive. It should close anything that is open, clean the ._ds files and then eject the drive.
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Posted: 2006-08-14 07:59:13
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Thanks to all that contributed such good advice
I'll use Finder Cleaner to eject the phone next time, and see how that works.
I guess this is my main gripe with
vs. Motorola. On my old V3i, there were never any USB connectivity issues, PC or Mac. It mounted reliably, and ejected just as easily, on/from both platforms. The phone didn't have to reboot itself, either. And the connection used a standard mini 5-pin USB cable - the same one used by my PDA, camera, and memory card reader.
Then again, the V3i's USB connection wasn't as "smart." The user had to decide ahead of time (before connecting) whether to make a "data" or "disk" connection. And only the memory card would mount via USB.
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Posted: 2006-08-14 15:31:23
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Windows doesn't need to eject a device before removing it - it manages fine if you just unplug the device. I do so all the time and have never suffered data corruption of anykind. I suggest the same would be true of the MAC, if not by default then perhaps there is a setting that can be changed to tell MAC to NOT cache files for removable devices - Windows has this option which is OFF by default, which allows the device to be disconnected without data loss.
BTW regarding drivers for windows, USB Mass Storage means you can plug in a mass storage device and it will configure as a removeable drive automatically, no drivers needed, just like MAC. W810 and K800 both support USB Mass Storage Protocol ie: NO Drivers
Bluetooth adapters have native support in Windows XP SP2 or later, which means guess what, NO DRIVERS. Yes you need a third party program to manage contacts etc, but file transfer, pim sync, hid, obex etc are available via the native BT drivers.
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Posted: 2006-08-15 00:56:22
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On 2006-08-15 00:56:22, max_wedge wrote:
You said this: Windows doesn't need to eject a device before removing it - it manages fine if you just unplug the device. I do so all the time and have never suffered data corruption of anykind. I suggest the same would be true of the MAC, if not by default then perhaps there is a setting that can be changed to tell MAC to NOT cache files for removable devices - Windows has this option which is OFF by default, which allows the device to be disconnected without data loss.
I reply: While this is a good idea. Mac OS X is UNIX, and you have to dismount the drives. That is why I suggested FinderCleaner which removes the ._ds files and unmounts the drive all at once. Windows and Mac OS X use different file structure requiring different handling. If I am incorrect in this, then someone please correct this, but as far as simply unplugging the device, Mac users unmount the drive first to lessen the risk of corrupting your data.
You wrote:
Quote:BTW regarding drivers for windows, USB Mass Storage means you can plug in a mass storage device and it will configure as a removeable drive automatically, no drivers needed, just like MAC. W810 and K800 both support USB Mass Storage Protocol ie: NO Drivers
I reply: This is a well established fact and was covered in this thread, so I am at a loss as to why this topic continues to make the rounds. Yes, Mac and Windows support the USB Mass Storage protocol and will recognize a USB device for what it is.
You wrote:
Quote:Bluetooth adapters have native support in Windows XP SP2 or later, which means guess what, NO DRIVERS. Yes you need a third party program to manage contacts etc, but file transfer, pim sync, hid, obex etc are available via the native BT drivers.
I ask: Does this mean that I can stick any BT dongle into my PC and have it ready to connect via BT and the only thing I need is software to perform various functions? Did I understand this correctly? ANY dongle is supported natively?
Max it seems that I offended you because of my lack of love for Windows. If it will make this all go away, how about I am sorry. Is it better now?
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Posted: 2006-08-15 01:13:18
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On 2006-08-15 01:13:18, sapporobaby wrote:
I reply: While this is a good idea. Mac OS X is UNIX, and you have to dismount the drives. That is why I suggested FinderCleaner which removes the ._ds files and unmounts the drive all at once. Windows and Mac OS X use different file structure requiring different handling. If I am incorrect in this, then someone please correct this, but as far as simply unplugging the device, Mac users unmount the drive first to lessen the risk of corrupting your data.
You don't have to explain the mounting process of os's like UNIX, I am quite familiar with both Linux and MAC, despite your apparent assumption that I must not be because I am obviously a technically bereft "windows" person.
Because write caching on removable drives is disabled by default in windows systems, there is no risk of corrupt data when removing a device without "unplugging" (windows version of unmounting). If write caching is enabled (argueably not needed on small capacity devices such as 1-2GB mem cards), then you must "unplug" (a process similiar to mac unmounting) the device before removal.
I have never had file corruption on a removable device due to removal without first unmounting, where write caching is disabled. I find it laughable that you promote MAC's inability to support such functionality on removable drives as a virtue. I ask again, are you sure there is no means in UNIX or MAC to tell allow for automatic (or accidental) dismounts? Surely there is such an ability, if not I guess Windows makes a better effort to protect user's data on removable drives?
Quote:
I reply: This is a well established fact and was covered in this thread, so I am at a loss as to why this topic continues to make the rounds. Yes, Mac and Windows support the USB Mass Storage protocol and will recognize a USB device for what it is.
Well yes I would have thought it obvious also, but in response to the guys question about the cable, you gave this non-sensical reply "You are given the option of using the file transfer mode or phone mode which is also normal. I can not be sure but I think that this is more for the benefit of Windoze users as for us Mac users, we have BT iSync capabilities, and no need to load drivers."
It is obvious from your reply that you view windows as needing drivers (for cable or BT I'm not sure since you seeming to get the two mixed up in that sentence), because you argue it's not relevant to mac because mac doesn't need drivers. Well, as I said, and you now agree, windows doesn't need drivers. For USB Mass Storage, OR BT. (see below)
Quote:
I ask: Does this mean that I can stick any BT dongle into my PC and have it ready to connect via BT and the only thing I need is software to perform various functions? Did I understand this correctly? ANY dongle is supported natively?
Yes. windows XP SP2 and on. Of course there will be some dongles that aren't supported. I have also heard of BT dongles that don't work in MAC at all, yet work in windows with the shipped drivers.
In Windows XP SP2 and later, bluetooth dongles don't need external drivers - windows will install it's own bluetooth driver. Admitedly the third party software is usually more comprehensive, but the basic profiles are supported. If you use a good phone management prog like My Phone Explorer then you don't need proprietary software, so you can use any bt dongle you plug into the system without installing new BT software for each one. Seems to me much like the convenience of a MAC?
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Max it seems that I offended you because of my lack of love for Windows. If it will make this all go away, how about I am sorry. Is it better now?
It's not your lack of love that offends me. It's just the fact that you are plain wrong, yet spread that information if it was from the Apple Bible and must therefore be right.
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Posted: 2006-08-16 06:39:13
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Yeah, a little research - MAC doesn't provide a means to disable write caching. So you have no option but to go through the eject process EVERYTIME you disconnect your W810, JUST INCASE there may happen to be some data in cache still.... Seems a pain to me.
Especially since 90% of the time you could pull the phone with no problems. Who wants to find out the 10% problem transfer happened to be when you really needed it to work?
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Posted: 2006-08-16 06:58:53
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Quote:
On 2006-08-16 06:58:53, max_wedge wrote:
Yeah, a little research - MAC doesn't provide a means to disable write caching. So you have no option but to go through the eject process EVERYTIME you disconnect your W810, JUST INCASE there may happen to be some data in cache still.... Seems a pain to me.
Especially since 90% of the time you could pull the phone with no problems. Who wants to find out the 10% problem transfer happened to be when you really needed it to work?
Actually if you had done real research you would notice that the underlying Kernel is BSD with Mac OS being written on top of that. So we are back to the UNIX debate again. I have unplugged my phones, drives, MS DUO's numerous times with no data corruption. So the chances, I do not know where you got your percentages, of data corruption could be rather small. The fact that Windows disables write caching is a good thing. So good infact that it is a shame that SUn, Redhat, Liunx, BSD (Mac OS X), and a host of others never make it a defacto standard. Am I wrong about this? You continue to say that I am wrong but after reading and re-reading your posts, you really do not point out where.
For the sake of argument, let's recap. This was a thread addressed to Mac users but you jumped in. You provided no solution or information other than to take issue with my statement about Windows. The info that I provided is not incorrect in anyway, and in one or two cases you even repeated what I previously stated. Would that make me two times correct? Still you have not provided a solution to the originator of this thread, but he has thanked me for helping him. You have gone off on additional tangents about the virtues of Windows and its features that pretty much have nothing to do with the thread originators posts. Have I missed anything?
Is there anywhere you are going with this? It is beyond boring now.
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*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
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[ This Message was edited by: sapporobaby on 2006-08-16 06:27 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-16 07:24:30
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Quote:
Actually if you had done real research you would notice that the underlying Kernel is BSD with Mac OS being written on top of that. So we are back to the UNIX debate again. I have unplugged my phones, drives, MS DUO's numerous times with no data corruption. So the chances, I do not know where you got your percentages, of data corruption could be rather small. The fact that Windows disables write caching is a good thing. So good infact that it is a shame that SUn, Redhat, Liunx, BSD (Mac OS X), and a host of others never make it a defacto standard. Am I wrong about this? You continue to say that I am wrong but after reading and re-reading your posts, you really do not point out where.
For the sake of argument, let's recap. This was a thread addressed to Mac users but you jumped in. You provided no solution or information other than to take issue with my statement about Windows. The info that I provided is not incorrect in anyway, and in one or two cases you even repeated what I previously stated. Would that make me two times correct? Still you have not provided a solution to the originator of this thread, but he has thanked me for helping him. You have gone off on additional tangents about the virtues of Windows and its features that pretty much have nothing to do with the thread originators posts. Have I missed anything?
Is there anywhere you are going with this? It is beyond boring now.
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*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
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[ This Message was edited by: sapporobaby on 2006-08-16 06:27 ]
Mate, I know what underpins MAC OS, when did I say anything different? You are the king of assumption, not I.
You mentioned facts about Windows that are incorrect. You still can't see that. You have said that windows needs external drivers for cable and BT - you are wrong my friend, it doesn't. Spreading such misunderstanding does not help the end user understand their choices better.
It seems you recommended using the findercleaner program to remove the ds files and to cleanly eject the device. I thought that surely the user can just remove the device anyway without ejecting first, but you specifically recommend using the findercleaner to eject the drive - so I deferred to your knowledge re: MAC in suggesting the 10% figure (it was a guess only - I was being cautious I would think the chance of corruption would be more like .001%). In my view I would have thought it would hardly be an issue at all, just as it's a complete non-issue in windows.
So therefore in deferment to your statement that ejects should be handled by findercleaner, and by doing a quick search and finding that MAC provides no means to disable write caching (which ensures there is NO chance of corruption when removing), I posted that the W810/MAC user should infact eject the drive before removing it to ensure they avoid corruption.
So what is it Sapporobaby? Is it okay to just pull the drive, or should it be ejected first? I know that in Windows, such questions don't concern me.
Possible fix to stop DS files appearing on removable drives
The files that MAC leaves on the drive have nothing to do with the "windows" format. Removable drives use FAT, a proxy industry standard for removable memory. The ds files that mac litters over removable drives has nothing to do with Windows or the type of format, but are about MAC osx's needs (windows positions and so forth). They appear on all MAC drives, but are hidden. However when stored on a removable drive they are no longer hidden (when viewed by the phone for example).
There is a way to stop them from appearing but this method may only work for network drives:
Open a terminal and type “defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true”, hit return, then restart the MAC.
http://maclife.techactually.com/news.php?item.42.4
Let me know if it works
There is also this software, which doesn't handle ejects, but does seem to be a handy program, it also has a Windows version.
http://www.redroomdevelopment.com/products/ds_store_cleaner/
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File System Tweaks for the K750
K750 Tricks[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-08-17 02:41 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-17 03:36:52
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Hey Max,
You can naturally just unplug the drive and ignore the screaming and yelling that Mac OS will send your way. You may or may not corrupt data in the process. You have hit on something interesting though. Maybe write caching is disabled as part of the OS regardless which would make it possible to simply remove the drive without first ejecting it. Maybe, and I could be VERY wrong here, the "eject drive first" scenario is a throw back to when BSD was first developed and no longer really needed. However, to be safe, I would eject the drive first.
As for the ._ds files, as long as the Mac user stays in strictly a Mac environment, these are never an issue. However, the moment the Mac user mounts an external drive, be it USB HD, or thumb drive, on a Windows machine, the ._ds files become an issue. They are harmless and can even be remove in Windows, but they can appear and be annoying to see all over your drive.
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Posted: 2006-08-17 07:36:44
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I must admit, when I first saw someone complain about ds files, I tended to think "what's the issue, just delete them?", but I suppose it could be annoying.
I have seen ds files on my own memory sticks after using them in MACs, it's not an issue. I have heard that some media players create playlists from the ds files when synchronised with a pc, but that seems more an excuse to find a better music sync program than to worry about the ds files. The music program should sync music only imho
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Posted: 2006-08-17 14:07:48
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