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Enjoy your new phone.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 00:27:58
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Hi all

Could some one please explain to my why you need a torch from a phone? I'm not playing dumb here but i see it constantly mentioned and i just don't get it.

If i want a torch i have a Surefire P9 with a 220 lumen's bulb Now that's a freaking torch!!

Marc

_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-11 23:28 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 00:28:10
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And I suppose you carry it everywhere you go.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 00:30:14
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@marc

i think the reason is the same as 'why should we have music players on phones', 'why should we have 5mp cameras', 'why should we have mobile internet' etc... afterall it is a phone!

Basically the logical reasoning is simply because the technology is there for it and so why not?

Additionally if you consider we are all going for this holy grail of a single device to be essentially the only thing we need when we leave the house then why not have a light feature, i remember when colour screens were new to the market many people were using the common white background of the text message as a light in certain situations.

Now with led lights they are using them as the torch. Again i think it comes down to the fact if you can have it and if you have had it why not continue to have it.

And in all fairness i can think of many times when the torch has come in handy, and while a stand alone torch may have been a better tool for the job it also meant i had to have the torch on me in anticipation of teh problem.

Also consider if the phone comes with flash, why cant you use that independant of the camera? if the feature is on board why not allow access to it and allow you to use it?

Like one of the BMW's i saw reviewed it had 500 odd BHP if i am not mistaken, but that was only accessed when the user told the on board computer i want 500BHP that makes no sense. If i buy a car because of the speed and its BHP i want access to it without the need to tell the car give me more power.
For the phone, it has a light for the camera, i want the light to search my bag when it is dark, or i want the light to light up a staircase.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 00:47:11
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5nak3

Sorry the things you mention belong on a device as in some cases they are Multimedia smart phones and as such they cover Multimedia features the same goes for phones as they are communication and entertainment devices other wise all you could do is talk and listen on. Sorry but a torch just doesn't fit into a logical extension of the devices purpose and is just what users have used it for.

As for the BMW you are talking of i think you wil find it's the BMW M5 and the whole purpose is for when you go to a track or Motorway as opposed to driveing round town where you neither need all the extra power or a harder supension that also changes. Seeing as all this done from the drivers seat it neither takes long or is difficult. I mean it's not like you have to get out a set of tools and manually set it up.


@NightBlade

Well as it happens yes i do also carry my Torch either in a Jacket Pocket or in the car and at night it is on a Lanyard around my neck.

It is a Surefire Torch and as such is made from lightweight Aircraft Grade Aluminium and is just 6.5" long and can be found here.

http://www.surefire.com/maxex[....]/displ/prrfnbr/23004/sesent/00

Mine is a tricked out Version and has a strobe switch and 220 Lumen's bulb which can be found here.

http://www.lighthound.com/ind[....]ageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2846

Now that's what i call a torch not a LED light from a phone.


Marc

_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-12 00:39 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 01:38:31
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Is it really that hard to understand why people like torches in their fones?

One of my most missed feature on my k750i is the torch (or do you prefer we call it LED coz the tiny thing doesn't live up to your "torch"?). Why you asked? Because during the time I had that fone, I really got to use the LED light a lot. When looking for things under the bed or drawer, brown-outs, walking thru a dark road (which I do a lot coz i often go to work around 4am).

There are always two things I have with me and thats my fone and wallet. I find it inconvenient to add have torch to that package. Besides, a real torch is not fashionable everyday accessory. haha!

sorry for the off-topic.

[ This Message was edited by: Erotomaniac on 2007-12-12 11:51 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 01:59:32
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@ Marc

Well i dont know much about cars, more of a bike person myself in any case i believe it is the M5 that i am refering to. I dont know the details of how to set it up and what not, although i agree that it doesn't require you to take tools out and all you have to do is press a few buttons, i still find it hard to believe someone would buy a car for its power and then drive around at a watered down power output...
I just cant understand the logic behind it, sure you've got such switches on recent bikes, GSX-R's spring to mind with their BHP button switching between different levels, but still i find that pointless, if you cant handle the huge amounts of horsepower dont buy that car/bike, as for you dont need 500BHP around town / on the motorway, you could logically argue the point down to the fact a 1000cc daihatsu with around 50-70BHP is more then enough round town and even on the motorways doing the speed limit (even though it may struggle), so to say that even a limited M5 which still produces around 350-400bhp is better suited to town then the 500bhp full power version is hardly a valid argument. Sure it may be easier and have a softer ride or whatever, fact is you still have 350bhp of which you are using 40 for instance.

In relation to the phones, i agree completely with you on the fact that phones are marketed as one thing or another. But i still find it hard to believe that you can claim the torch function to be useless. I have a keyring torch Led thing (dont even know the brand, name, model..or its current whereabouts), but chances of me forgetting that at home are much higher compared to me forgetting my phone.

For instance on a ride one night, my bike suffers a flat, i pull up unaware at the time what it was, search for my torch i had forgotten it. My phone doesn't have the torch function but damn i would have killed for it then.

Another time, a mate trashed his bike, he came off ok i guess about 20 stitches in total but nothing too serious, in any case we go to collect his bike, it was in a ditch, luckily we had a torch and we made sure the tank hadn't leaked, because the initial idea was to see if the bike was working...which could have ended rather badly.

Now in the second example we planned for the need for a torch therefore we took one with us. In the first example i didn;t plan for a flat, and i was gutted that a function people take for granted and question could have eaily proven very useful.

It comes down to what people expect at the end of the day. My phone plays mp3 and i can use it as a music player i dont expect to do so however due to the fact i have a dedicated device for that, although there are times when i want to listen to music and the player is not ideal e.g. when shaving...

Same with the torch, you may have a dedicated device, but end of the day if you forget it and you need a light i like to think i've at least got some sort of a safety net with a phone that has that function, even if it is not very good.

[ This Message was edited by: 5nak3 on 2007-12-12 01:09 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 02:08:30
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@5nak3

OK I'll try to talk to you in terms you understand, take the Top of the Range Duccati who in their right mind would want to rude that round the West End of London in rush hour. But take that Bike out on Sunny Day on some nice B Roads and that that's what's it's made for.

The whole point of the M5 is simply it is a tweaked Saloon car most of the time you can drive it as such no different to the best normal version. But go to a track day or those same B roads as the bike and you can unleash the beast. It is Porsche fast maybe not bike fast but then very few car's are.

I used to believe in the Holy Grail of converged devices and in 22 years of Mobile devices have yet to find one, they all have their limitations and really single devices are normally if not always better.

I would advise you to get a Surefire as it would be a really useful thing for dark Bike repairs a lot better than a phone ever could be.

@Erotomaniac

Well the last thing i would want to be doing at 4am whilst waking in dark area's is waving or holding my illuminated phone for all to see, you might as well shout MUG ME!!! while your at it.

Marc



_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-12 01:34 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 02:33:09
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I never said that the phone will ever be better than individual dedicated devices, although as was mentioned wallet and phone are the two givens i have anywhere with me. Now after that the rest is when i remember, if i remember and if i intend to use it.

While i agree 100% that the surefire, or in fact any high powered led torch is much better than a phone will ever be, i still think the reason people want a torch (bringing us back to the original question) is because they have seen the use of such a function, they see it as such a basic feature it should to an extent be a given in any phone look at the cheap nokia for insance, the 1120, dont know my nokia model numbers, but one of them had a torch built in, and this is a £20 phone we are talking about.

Also to be honest with you, i cant see myself using the torch on the phone a lot, but as i said it is just a safety net, and to tell the truth since the companies are putting the led flash onto their phones then that should automatically also be available for torch use regardless of it will be used or not.

And again i agree that the holy grail of convergence is not something we will see any time soon if at all, all the companies are trying to portray that regardless of how you argue it, all companies what to sell their device which will replace all your other devices, so why not the torch as well?

As for the bike/car i dont understand why people have the superbikes around town, but they do, i find it funny sitting all hunched up, going around town, while you have the little vespas filtering in and out with ease.



Now i dont know enough about the m5 / BMW, but i'm sure BMW are not selling that under the guise of a tweaked saloon, surely they are selling that based on the power it produces, two quotes from BMW's website:

"the complete performance curve"
"boundless acceleration"

So i think you could say they are selling that as ducati sell their big bikes, for speed, performance...cos i cant think of the last time i heard a ford saloon being advertised like that (extreme example i know )

And as i said riding an expensive ducati around town is not ideal, let alone comfortable, but you can ride it as any normal version of a bike. "But go to a track day or those same B roads and you can unleash the beast"

All i'm saying is give a customer 100bhp and then say you can only use this on a motorway as it is not ideal in town or give them 500bhp and say only use this on track cos town is not good is silly.
As a customer i buy a bike or car based on a number of things, power output may figure sometimes, other times it may not. But when i buy it i dont want the company regardless of who they are to tell me to use the full power i need to mess around with the on board computer, unless there is a legal reason i.e. a young rider wanting a big bike but cant exceed a certain power output hence they restrict the output of the bike, but other then that there is no reason for such restrictions.



[ This Message was edited by: 5nak3 on 2007-12-12 02:46 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 03:43:41
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Exactly what I felt

However, I learned to bite the bullet and to lower my expectation though



Marc, like what people here have already mentioned, I too often brings only two things with me, a wallet and a phone. Though I have many dedicated torches, I don’t bring them everywhere.

Torch in a phone is really nifty to have. Not necessary you need it often but it is there when you need one.

For example when you step into something dark, be it in the cinema, underground car-park, under car bonnet, bag, or any place that need some light assistance. Or perhaps at the emergency situation like caught in a blackout in foreign countries (real experience). At such situation normally people do not have the time to search for a dedicated torch but rather lights up whatever you have in the hand (phone).

It is indispensable part of my lifestyle. I can use a java program that lights up the white screen on my N95 but the usefulness (neither too bright nor too dim) cannot beat the dual led in K750. IMHO


[ This Message was edited by: islandprd on 2007-12-12 09:50 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 08:00:58
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