Sony Ericsson / Sony : Symbian phones : P900 Memory Stick Pro DUO Support - please read - You can help!
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On 2004-06-28 00:45:37, DungeonMaster wrote:
Hmmm... Here we go again... IT CANT BE DONE! It is a ms bus addressing restriction. It is a hardcyard matter. And it doesnt have to do with any drivers or software. Just forget about it. Wait until the P910 or the P1000
Well it can be done, and it has. Please explain why you think it can't be done.
It's a serial bus, so here's my theory of how, without knowing the details of the hardware and the bus: There is a packet-format for the start of a request frame, which is different (longer) for the PRO due to a longer address. Well either the ASIC will support generation of this frame or it won't (unless it's stupidly designed, it will, but who knows with a custom ASIC). But if it won't, you can program the frames bit by bit in software by assigning the clock and data pins as GPIO's while you write the request. Well this PIO mode won't be efficient at all, and take lots of CPU, but it'd probably only be required to make the read/write request headers and not the data itself which can still be handled by the hw controller and use buffering and/or DMA.
Ok, if what the hack I saw did was to program the interface bit by bit in this way, and if it's not possible to switch back to hardware buffered IO for the bulk of the transfer, then I'll say that it's probably not viable to provide a firmware upgrade for this (it would simply be too slow and CPU intensive to be useful for anything but showing off), but otherwise it can be done.
We won't know as I doubt they'll release the datasheet for their custom ASIC
But since so many of their other memory stick controllers support this, and I'd assume they have reused an IP block rather than design it from scratch for the Px00 ASIC, and so it's most likely that it IS possible to do it in software.
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Posted: 2004-06-28 02:58:13
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Hey guys, dont know if it gonna work or not, but i dont think there is any harm is voting in the link provided... what do we lose if nothing happens? and if something did happen, i wud be the happiest!
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Posted: 2004-06-28 02:58:34
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@Descore and others
quote: 'without knowing the details of the hardware and the bus'
This first line sort of shoots any theory in the proverbials, if we knew the design of the bus controller we could state a definate answer, but as you put it we dont so we can all spend a merry week bitching about the vapourware being discussed but it needs SE to make anything solid and as far as i know, they havnt said a dicky bird about the p900 when discussing software or hardware busses, ASICS or updates the only thing we do know is the slot should be the same but after that who knows (SE engineers please comment).
And again i put it to you all, do you really think that SE would not have done this already if it were a mere update ? or again do we all subscribe to the conspiracy theory that us poor p900 users are the whipping dogs of the phone world ?
RED.
_________________
Learn the Rules...So you know how to Break them properly.
[ This Message was edited by: red5hark on 2004-06-28 02:21 ]
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Posted: 2004-06-28 03:19:10
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Well red5hark, as I said I've seen the hack in function, it seemed very slow but it did work and it's my observations that I based my theory on.
As I said, if the hack is to program the interface bit by bit it's not viable, so this may be the reason they haven't done it.
But knowing how these things work in general, in cases like this it's most often possible to find a combination hack that will make it work. However, it is NOT straightforward and it would probably take a talented sw/hw engineer quite a while to figure it out (and always with the risk that it will be fruitless), so maybe they just haven't done it because of resource issues.
I have worked with lots of different serial controllers and buses over the years and I am familiar with the common design issues in this area, so it's at least educated guesses. Now I wish I knew more about how the hack had been implemented, but I don't so it's the best I can give..
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Posted: 2004-06-28 03:26:15
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@Descore
I'm not saying youre lying or trying to poke holes in your posts for fun, im just a bit fed up with seeing this post rearing it's ugly head in one shape or another on a weekly basis.
I too have had a long career path using this type and many others bus types in varied hardware/software configurations, and do agree on the feasability IF it is built in in the first place.
There should be and i hope i am right in saying MANY talented software/hardware engineers that actually WORK for SE and HAD a hand in the design stages of the p900 phone, but they seem to have vacated the premises for the time being so no answer EXCEPT conjecture CAN be brought forth from people like us.
I do hope that the update thing is true, or that some spritely young amatuer will cash in on this quick sharp as...
...as much as the next man/girl/child/dog/alien who uses the p900.
Kudos.
RED.
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Posted: 2004-06-28 03:37:58
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@all the people here that will not let the Memory Stick Pro issue die a long deserved death.
Did it occur to you "software hanger-on'ers" that the hardware is already part of the device but simply needs the firmware drivers to make it work? Maybe it is a software issue but the hardware is not installed in the P900? God I wish this issue would go away. More and more Esato is beginning to look like a less and less professonal sounding board for info and help and more and more like a rambling board for the "I wish crowd".
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Posted: 2004-06-28 09:10:37
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I did a lot of research on this subject before the P900 was released. I was unhappy to hear that the P900 has the same MS Duo drive as the P800, and not a paralell reader that will make it fully MS Duo Pro compatible.
However, both the P800 and P900 can read duo pros with a firmware update to change the addressing system. This will be slow due to the serial interface however.
I know this is a fact, however some will choose to disbelieve, I can't say I blame them to be honest!
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Posted: 2004-06-28 09:30:45
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Does nobody reads the whitepaper anymore?
Quote:Memory Stick Duo
Available Sizes: 8, 16, 32 MB (standard), 64 and 128 MB (Magic Gate).
Maximum size 128 MB Hardware interface: Serial
Write protect switch: No
Colour: Violet (standard), white (Magic Gate)
File system: FAT16
Memory Stick Duo New
Available Sizes: 32, 64, 128 MB (Magic Gate).
Maximum size 128 MB
Hardware interface:
Serial, parallel
Write protect switch: No
Colour: Dark blue
File system: FAT 16
Memory Stick Duo Pro
Available Sizes: 256, 512 MB (Magic Gate). Up to 4GB will be supported.
Hardware interface: Serial, parallel
Write protect switch: No
Colour: Yellow
File system: Fat 32
The file system FAT16 supports sizes up to 128 MB; FAT32 will support sizes up to 4 GB. The P900/908 can currently only use FAT16.
The fact that you can update older VIAOs and certain Cliés (OS5 only!), is because Windows and PalmOS5 can handle FAT32. The older Cliés with OS4 does not.
Bottomline is: Symbian UIQ works with the FAT16 file system, which means NO Pro support.
Why Sony made those Pro sticks FAT32 only is probably a big mystery
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Posted: 2004-06-28 09:38:54
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The people who seem sick of this issue seem to be writing the most about it, if you don’t like this topic don’t read it, the tread title is clear enough. Esato seems reasonably democratic, people can post what they like, they are in the right forum let them get on with it. Why not start an anti speculation thread somewhere else.
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Posted: 2004-06-28 09:40:36
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On 2004-06-28 09:40:36, bahbahsupercar wrote:
The people who seem sick of this issue seem to be writing the most about it, if you don’t like this topic don’t read it, the tread title is clear enough. Esato seems reasonably democratic, people can post what they like, they are in the right forum let them get on with it. Why not start an anti speculation thread somewhere else.
I totally agree, you dont like it, dont come in here. I dont go into Bluetooth forums because I am just sick of it.
I know its possible that doesnt mean it will be done. I think that SE believes that 128mb is enough for a mobile.
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Posted: 2004-06-28 10:42:50
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