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scotsboyuk:
Quote:As such they haven't had the means to really push quantity so they, sensibly in my opinion, focused on quality.
Maybe SE already overstretched with current number of phones that it does not have the extra resources to focus on quality.
Quote:No other manufacturer has ever released a handset that has bugs?
Not as many as in P990 (even after such long delay)
Quote:If you look at what SE have released over the past years one can see a consistent pattern of popular handsets that deliver good features.
Few years ago SE is synonymous with high-priced cutting edge phone (like T68, p800, T610). But today it has since dropped out of the technology race. P990 is technically still-born at the moment until instability/bugs are remedied. This may take many months and by then P990 specs is obsoleted. Currently, Nokia N and E-series virtually dominates high-end cutting edge phones. From the way things are going, SE is unlikely to have a share of this pie in the future.
Current SE best K800 is still second ranked megapixel phone in terms of technology compared to Nokia N73 or samsung D900. SE needs to change its focus fast to stay competitive. Samsung has overtaken SE in the technology race and LG is catching up fast. SE will be in for a big shock if it thinks that being the king of recloner will ensure its survival. Once you lost the technology edge, then the current fortune will dwindle very fast.
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Posted: 2006-09-13 04:47:35
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Well, NOKIA is better in terms of symbian, smartphones etc... But many of us dont need tha characteristcs because we do not use them and almost all nokias are A BIG UGLY BRICK that wheights 100 Kg that takes like 10 minutes to turn on and to open anything.
Sony Ericssons do not have symbian (MOST) but are nicer, smaller, lighter, faster, better batteries duration and much mor style with the Walkman or Cyber Shot phones.
I've had NOKIAS in the past but they really suck compared to SE (In my cas because I dont need 3g or symbian apps.)
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Posted: 2006-09-13 05:08:30
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On 2006-09-13 04:47:35, mib1800 wrote:
Maybe SE already overstretched with current number of phones that it does not have the extra resources to focus on quality.
This is based upon what? As far as I can see most current SE handsets are of a fairly high quality.
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Not as many as in P990 (even after such long delay)
The P990 could be riddled with bugs and completely cancelled and it would still not lend any credence to your initial comment because you are using a single example to make a generalisation. Suffice to say that SE has had it's share of bugs, but then so do most manufacturers, I certainly wouldn't claim Nokia were incapable of producing a high quality handset should they release one handset that had bugs. I would realise that sometimes certain projects can just be bogged down with problems.
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Few years ago SE is synonymous with high-priced cutting edge phone (like T68, p800, T610). But today it has since dropped out of the technology race. P990 is technically still-born at the moment until instability/bugs are remedied. This may take many months and by then P990 specs is obsoleted. Currently, Nokia N and E-series virtually dominates high-end cutting edge phones. From the way things are going, SE is unlikely to have a share of this pie in the future.
What an incredbly odd picture you paint! Let's actually look at what SE have on offer at the moment; handsets that offer a good standard of feature that customers actually want. Once again you seem to be fixated with smartphones despite the fact smartphone features are neither necessary nor wildly popular with the majority of consumers.
I think SE have actually been jolly clever in avoiding the trap of releasing numerous smartphones so far. The simple fact of the matter is that the public at large is not interested, what the public are interested in are handsets with good music players, cameras and solid basic features. I don't think SE are at all interested in 'keeping up with the Jones'', rather they appear to be much more orientated towards actually growing their business.
If we take a case in point, the UK, we can see that Nokia's 'high-end cutting edge' is apparently not quite as good at winning over the public as 'dumber' handsets from the likes of SE and Samsung. For the week ending 7th September, the highest selling handset in the UK was the K800, followed by the D900 and then the E900. The week before that the K750 was at number three. It was an all Motorola top three the week before that. The week before that the K800 was at number one. Motorola again dominated the top three the preceeding week and before that the K800 was holding the number one spot. Do you notice the trend here?
No, it's not that SE feature rather prominently, rather it is that at no time is Nokia present in the top three. In fact one has to go back to the week ending 18th August to find a Nokia handset in the UK top three and do you know which handset it is? The N91? The N80? None of those ... the Nokia 1100!
It would seem that consumers prefer handsets, which offer good quality features that they actually want to use rather than a plethora of handsets that can do just about everything under the sun except actually appeal to a majority of consumers.
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Current SE best K800 is still second ranked megapixel phone in terms of technology compared to Nokia N73 or samsung D900.
Ranked by whom? At any rate, from what I can see all three handsets are relatively good cameraphones, so much so that there seems to be quite a bit of healthy debate about which one is best, especially between the N73 and K800.
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SE needs to change its focus fast to stay competitive.
Profits are up; more handsets are being sold; more products are being released, that sounds as if they are doing fairly well to me.
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Samsung has overtaken SE in the technology race ...
... and SE has just overtaken Samsung in the UK market share race.
Your point here is a bit confusing though. Samsung have had some fairly advanced handsets out in South Korea for a while now, more advanced than most, if not all, European handsets. So one could argue that Samsung have in fact been ahead of SE, Nokia and certain other manufacturers for a while now.
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... and LG is catching up fast.
The only handset that LG has out at the moment (in Europe) that I would consider to be a really advanced piece of kit is the KG920. The 'Chocolate' isn't really that impressive when one gets past its looks. The KG920 on the other hand is an interesting wee handset. However, with a 5 MP camera one could say that LG have pulled ahead of Nokia too since Nokia don't currently have a 5 MP camera phone. Does this mean that LG are necessarily going to make massive inroads into Nokia's business? Of course not.
A manufacturer's success is more than simply squeezing in as many impressive features as possible or releasing as many handsets as possible.
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SE will be in for a big shock if it thinks that being the king of recloner will ensure its survival. Once you lost the technology edge, then the current fortune will dwindle very fast.
Cloning handsets seemed to work rather well for Nokia.
SE are doing quite nicely thank you very much. They are slowly, but surely growing and expanding. Each year we see their portfolio expand a bit more. Each year we see their business move forwards a bit more. Every years we see them releasing products, which the public really gel with.
The mere fact that you are even comparing a small company like SE with a giant like Nokia is arguably a testament to the fact that SE punches well above its weight. Let Nokia release as many smartphones as it wishes; let Motorola release ever more incarnations of the RAZR, but as long as SE continues to give me what I want, that is a handset that has features I actually want to use, and which are of a good standard, I shall keep buying their products.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-13 05:36 ]
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Posted: 2006-09-13 06:30:51
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scotsboyuk:
Quote:I can see most current SE handsets are of a fairly high quality.
If this is your yardstick, then handsets from other manufacturers are of fairly high quality also. I thought you are saying that SE limit their handsets so that it concentrate on making better quality handsets than the rest of the world. Apparently not.
Quote:The P990 could be riddled with bugs and completely cancelled and it would still not lend any credence to your initial comment because you are using a single example to make a generalisation. Suffice to say that SE has had it's share of bugs, but then so do most manufacturers, I certainly wouldn't claim Nokia were incapable of producing a high quality handset should they release one handset that had bugs.
If you cannot make your flagship model workable despite very long development period and much delay then I would say this qualifies as a reason.
My opinion is that SE has just "one" platform model i.e. K750i. The rest are just the clone of this with changes to camera module only. Same OS and same crap video recording. Others has been shrinking the handset size in subsequent generation (D600->D900, N70->N73). SE is increasing size (K750->K800).
Quote:The week before that the K800 was at number one. Motorola again dominated the top three the preceeding week and before that the K800 was holding the number one spot. Do you notice the trend here?
What does this prove? If SE as rosy a company as you have painted, then why does SE market share worldwide do not increase at a rocket rate. In fact, the relative increase is no better that what was achieved by Nokia. If SE cannot accelerate faster than the incumbent what does that show?
btw: hope your statistic is not based on the list provided by the leather case maker.
Quote:Ranked by whom? At any rate, from what I can see all three handsets are relatively good cameraphones
You are very right. The three are more or less equal as CAMERA. But the rest of the K800 specs are pretty weak compared to the other 2.
Quote:Profits are up; more handsets are being sold; more products are being released, that sounds as if they are doing fairly well to me.
Very true. But we also remember 2-3 quarters ago Samsung seems unstoppable in becoming No. 2.
Quote:A manufacturer's success is more than simply squeezing in as many impressive features as possible or releasing as many handsets as possible.
Not entirely so. First impression is crucial. If a person who do not know anything about phones picks up the spec of K800 and N73, he immediately can tell N73 has the upperhand. If all the other factors being equal, then it is very like this person will go with N73.
Releasing more handsets in "different" segments (like fashion or sport) helps to win business. But releasing the same handset (like K750/W800/810/700) in different casing in the same market segment is more likely to confuse and alienate buyers.
Quote:as long as SE continues to give me what I want, that is a handset that has features I actually want to use, and which are of a good standard, I shall keep buying their products.
The big question will other buyers or current SE buyers return and upgrade after N-th consecutive generation of similar products K750->K800->K?? W800->W810/700->W??. I think quite a few (even in this forum) lamented why should they want to upgrade from a K750/W800 to a W810 or K800 when the difference in spec and outlook is so little.
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Posted: 2006-09-13 08:42:53
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On 2006-09-13 05:08:30, nalbagli wrote:
Well, NOKIA is better in terms of symbian, smartphones etc... But many of us dont need tha characteristcs because we do not use them and almost all nokias are A BIG UGLY BRICK that wheights 100 Kg that takes like 10 minutes to turn on and to open anything.
Sony Ericssons do not have symbian (MOST) but are nicer, smaller, lighter, faster, better batteries duration and much mor style with the Walkman or Cyber Shot phones.
I've had NOKIAS in the past but they really suck compared to SE (In my cas because I dont need 3g or symbian apps.)
may be thats why it gives lot of software problems and viruses..!! i agree with you lol !!
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Posted: 2006-09-13 09:14:07
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facinating......kewl...... just get a nokia 5110 is a very tough tough phone, if you throw that 5110 to somebody's head sure of it got a headache in a week!!! just be ourself's SE
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Posted: 2006-09-13 09:46:44
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Hi all,
I have stated many times my dissatisfaction with the way we the consumers are treated by the manufacturers and i mean all of them.
But some here need to remove there rose tinted specs and also stop living in the past, which ever phone some one chooses is a personal choice and there really isn't a wrong choice IMO.
But for those of you that claim SE are so good and reliable i suggest you have a quick scan of this forum for a reality check leaving aside the two Symbian phones whose problems are extremely well documented on this forum and still not resolved.
Lets look at the K800 SE's top the range cybershot phone just how many of these have died for no apparent reason and this is not the only problem reported either there is nothing special or complicated in this phone bar its camera.
OK we get you all hate Nokia get over it, the latest incarnation of S60 is not slow and is feature rich compare the N73 and K800 remove the cameras and there is no comparison and they appear to be roughly the same price.
How many SE phones suffer with the now famous White Screen of Death and these are not even smartphones, also many here seem to feel because SE offer the ability to update firmware at home this makes it alright then for them to ship phones with so many problems as they will eventually fix it or not and hey who knows you may even kill your phone in the process.
My last complaint and some thing i really struggle to understand like it or not we live in a global market yet SE service centres refuse to carry out warranty repairs if your phone comes from a different region what a load of bull that is IMO that beggars belief and i must say i don't think SE are the only ones guilty of this either.
So in answer to the original posters statement no phone company is perfect they all have their plus and minus points but until we the consumer stop happily accepting the way they treat us and giving them our money it is never going to change.
Marc
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Posted: 2006-09-13 09:54:23
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Most ppl that are happy with their phone never end up on a forum like this.
So going by a forum like this can give the wrong idea.
I been worried several times buying a new phone after looking here.
But almost never had any of the "common" problems described here.
Might also be I almost never buy a phone from the first batch when its brand spanking new.
Of cause this dont aply only to
phone I'm sure if I was to look in a nokia help forum I could get the same idea that almost all phones where flawed =)
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Posted: 2006-09-13 10:25:22
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the p990 is never meant to be a success in mu eyes.. it's something for people to play with.. it will never be a dominating product..equilavant to the nokia communicator series...unless they evolve to the s60 range and push out more flavours...
but se is in the right step.. it's not always about the tech race it's about market appeal... we'll see if the sony spam tactic works.. remember we're talking about the general public not esato geeks that know everything about phones..
i run into people all the time that say "wow, that's a cybershot" lol they don't know if it's any good or not. it's just wow cybershot in a cellphone.. honestly if they do that and release comparable products to what's out there it'll sell...
i don't see any true leader in the tech race right now.. except the nokia in the wifi category..
otherwise everyone releasing the same specs +/- a few things here and there
Marc..i've had a lot more success getting a SE fixed through warranty then a nokia or moto... i find SE;s "global" policy to work reasonably well but slow.
nokia or moto US for example it's not from North america we won't touch it
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http://www.howardforums.com/m[....]s=&action=getinfo&userid=20841[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2006-09-13 14:23 ]
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Posted: 2006-09-13 15:20:20
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I've just spoken to someone on our sister, trade, title and the phones giving dealers the most grief at the moment are the Nokia N70 and 6280. On the 6280, it's a hardware issue - not software.
I haven't yet experienced a Sony Ericsson fail, but I'd be prepared to acknowledge that nothing is perfect. However, I wouldn't trust a forum where few people will come on saying "Just to let you know, my phone is fine". It's a SE forum - people will come here to moan about problems!
As an aside, the LG K920 is based on a Korean phone that's nearly 1.5 years old. It's exclusively available through Carphone Warehouse and I believe they got 600 - which sold out very quickly. It takes fantastic photos, but is rubbish as a phone. LG are obviously testing the water with a view to releasing something more European friendly - but I'd still go for a D900, K800 or N73 over one.
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Posted: 2006-09-13 15:34:51
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