Sony Ericsson / Sony : General : Goodbye, my Nokia mistress. Hello again SE, my true love.
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@max_wedge:
On SE, when you press "activity menu" it goes straight to Shortcut menu, unless apps are running. Either way there is nothing complicated or "not neat" about it.
This is what I call "not neat" or incoherent. Why dump everything (fav/task/events) into Activity Menu and expect users to dig thru it to find what they are looking for? In S60 it is more coherent. E,g menu key is all about app. Press once to see all installed
app. Long press to see running
app.
not true, two button presses from within any area of the phone menu. You do not have to go to stanby screen to access main menu. This is one of those presumptions you make that I speak of
(anyway a long hold of the"back" key takes you to standby prompty.)
Either you jump to main menu via link in activity menu or long press of back key, it still makes Main Menu hidden deep. This is a flaw in the design. Like I say, the main menu is the most important screen and should be able accessible quickly from anywhere.
You can go into main menu/applications/ and start the app that way, if it is already running it will task switch to it. You don't start an app from the activity menu, you start an app from the applications folder. Once it is running you can access it quickly and easily via the activity menu.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you are running an app and you want to keep it open, you still have go to thru activity menu then the apps folder to start another app.
I am not saying SE UI is crap or anything like that. But coming from a smart OS UI like S60, I would expect SE "non-smart" UI to be "simpler". But in fact I find it more cumbersome to use than S60. And add to the fact that the A100/200 came out long after the S60.
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Posted: 2007-12-10 07:54:15
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On 2007-12-10 07:54:15, mib1800 wrote:
@max_wedge:
This is what I call "not neat" or incoherent. Why dump everything (fav/task/events) into Activity Menu and expect users to dig thru it to find what they are looking for? In S60 it is more coherent. E,g menu key is all about app. Press once to see all installed app. Long press to see running app.
No matter what you say, you will never fit all your installed apps in one screen of your main menu, you will still need to scroll to access some items. I see the shortcut list to applications folder as no different.
Either you jump to main menu via link in activity menu or long press of back key, it still makes Main Menu hidden deep. This is a flaw in the design. Like I say, the main menu is the most important screen and should be able accessible quickly from anywhere.
I don't agree that a two button press access to main menu compared to Nokia's one button press should be classified as a flaw in design. I don't disagree the option for a one button main menu option is better, but only by such a slight margin that I don't feel it impacts in any serious way on SE UI usability.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you are running an app and you want to keep it open, you still have go to thru activity menu then the apps folder to start another app.
Yes that is correct. Here, as I have agreed, since SE doesn't allow shortcuts to java apps, the only way to start a java app from scratch is through the "applications" folder. So if you have a shortcut to "applications" on the top of the activity menu shortcut list, accessing a list of your applications while within another app, you would need to press activity menu, right joy, then "applications" before you would be in the list of apps. It is more cumbersome than s60, but SE could solve it with the ability to add shortcuts for java apps. I have heard that SE have this is on the agenda, but I'm not sure of the reliabilty of that info. Keep in mind that if an app is buried 8 deep in your list of apps, you are going to have to scroll down to it anyway, so the addition of the couple of extra presses needed to access the "applications" folder initially doesn't much to the total presses needed to access the app.
This is why I think that while on paper there are some extra steps needed at some points, in practice it is very seemless and efficient. Atleast I find it so, and I have played extensively with my N70 trying to compare usability and I find no particular advantage in accessing apps on the N70 than I do on the K800. But I'm prepared to accept that it may be just my personal preferences.
I am not saying SE UI is crap or anything like that. But coming from a smart OS UI like S60, I would expect SE "non-smart" UI to be "simpler". But in fact I find it more cumbersome to use than S60. And add to the fact that the A100/200 came out long after the S60.
Personally I would expect a smart os to be simpler, due to increased customisability. The less customisation that is available, the more the end user is forced to do things the way the OEM wants them to do it. For me SE has a high degree of customisability for a non-smartphone, that sets it apart from motorola, samsung, and even Nokia s40.
Apart from the lack of custom shortcuts for java apps, I find the UI very efficient.
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Posted: 2007-12-10 08:59:01
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@max_wedge:
No matter what you say, you will never fit all your installed apps in one screen of your main menu, you will still need to scroll to access some items. I see the shortcut list to applications folder as no different.
Just a little more on this.
This is where the customisable menu of S60 scores big time. You see I create my own sub-menus like "Organiser", "Tools", "WebApp" etc. And I put the sub-menu at the alphabet key position e.g. Organiser at "6", Tools at "8". And in the submenu, I put the app icons according to the alphabet as well. So to start any app, I need at most 2 or 3 keypress i.e. menu key->submenu postion key->app position key. Just keeping the menu to just 12 positions, I can have up to 144 app icons. I dont have to remember postions as I can easily relate the app to the T9.
With this I dont even need to setup any Favorites in S60. On the other hand "Favorites" in the SE Activity Menu still requires more keypress instead of the 2 or 3 in S60.
I think what SE should do is convert "activity menu" key to "menu". Since in standby you can assign 7 shortcuts to the joystick and softkeys, you can do away with Fav in activity menu. For running task, SE can do like S60 (i.e. long press) or just put an icon in main menu.
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Posted: 2007-12-10 10:33:06
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I just want to point out the other side of the coin.
If so many people are ok with SE UI and not having meaningful problem navigating it, but to the persistent few who keep finding it difficult or dramatically flawed, then there must be something wrong somewhere
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Posted: 2007-12-10 13:41:43
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On 2007-12-10 13:41:43, islandprd wrote:
I just want to point out the other side of the coin.
If so many people are ok with SE UI and not having meaningful problem navigating it, but to the persistent few who keep finding it difficult or dramatically flawed, then there must be something wrong somewhere
SE UI users may not have meaningful problem from but that doesnt mean SE UI is better than S60. I have given proof of nine aspects where S60 UI is more efficient and coherent in design. Obviously you think SE UI is better, so for meaningful debate, you may want to come out with some points where SE UI is better instead of falling back to the exit position of "there is no right or wrong as everyone has their own preferences"
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Posted: 2007-12-10 16:07:23
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On 2007-12-10 16:07:23, mib1800 wrote:
SE UI users may not have meaningful problem from but that doesnt mean SE UI is better than S60.
You didnt get my point before, did you? I say before that better (or not) is matter of individual preference and no one can force his preference to others ?
I have given proof of nine aspects where S60 UI is more efficient and coherent in design.
Proof what proof?
Those nine are problem to you but what I understand not to some others
Obviously you think SE UI is better
Better? Where the hell I ever say SE UI is better than every other UI, in my posts?
Anyway for a concern whether S60 can learn one or two thing from SE UI can be seen at other forum
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=71741
I do not want to be a narrow minded therefore I dont want to see thing from one side only. Anyway I am just pointing the other side of the coin. It is up to what you want to believe. I do not wish to add more OT or flames unnecessarily to this thread
I leave this with an old wisdom. One can see a big block on other person's eye but failed to see a tiny dirt in his own eye. I believe this applies to everyone (including myself with no exception) so sometimes it is good for some soul searching
[ This Message was edited by: islandprd on 2007-12-10 16:06 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-10 16:45:25
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islandprd:
I do not want to be a narrow minded therefore I dont want to see thing from one side only.
No. I am not saying this. We are debating, isnt it? If everyone takes a neutral position we might as well go to sleep. I think S60 UI is a better design based on the 9 factors I came out with. So either you agree or dont agree?
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Posted: 2007-12-10 17:05:53
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@mib1800 my dear,
Why would I want to debate on things that never end? cos what I understand, better or not, is based on personal preference.
Btw, I edited my post and add a link (in case u do not aware which I am sure you do) that may be able to address your need of debate on UI
Link here:
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=71741
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Posted: 2007-12-10 17:11:37
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On 2007-12-10 17:11:37, islandprd wrote:
@mib1800 my dear,
Why would I want to debate on things that never end? cos what I understand, better or not, is based on personal preference.
Btw, I edited my post and add a link (in case u do not aware which I am sure you do) that may be able to address your need of debate on UI
Link here:
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=71741
then stop replying to my post, my dear
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-10 16:56 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-10 17:55:27
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On 2007-12-10 10:33:06, mib1800 wrote:
@max_wedge:
No matter what you say, you will never fit all your installed apps in one screen of your main menu, you will still need to scroll to access some items. I see the shortcut list to applications folder as no different.
Just a little more on this.
This is where the customisable menu of S60 scores big time. You see I create my own sub-menus like "Organiser", "Tools", "WebApp" etc. And I put the sub-menu at the alphabet key position e.g. Organiser at "6", Tools at "8". And in the submenu, I put the app icons according to the alphabet as well. So to start any app, I need at most 2 or 3 keypress i.e. menu key->submenu postion key->app position key. Just keeping the menu to just 12 positions, I can have up to 144 app icons. I dont have to remember postions as I can easily relate the app to the T9.
With this I dont even need to setup any Favorites in S60. On the other hand "Favorites" in the SE Activity Menu still requires more keypress instead of the 2 or 3 in S60.
I think what SE should do is convert "activity menu" key to "menu". Since in standby you can assign 7 shortcuts to the joystick and softkeys, you can do away with Fav in activity menu. For running task, SE can do like S60 (i.e. long press) or just put an icon in main menu.
Or, they could simply assign numbers to shortcuts in the shortcut list like in any other menu. But tbh I don't use the numbered menu system - I change my shit too frequently and I'd have to be always thinking "is that app number 3 in the list or number 4?" etc. So I just press and scroll, and I don't find it cumbersome at all.
btw, I am aware of the flexibility of creating menu and submenu's in s60, and it is one of the things about s60 that I like, but more because of the ease of grouping similiar functions in submenus, rather than the ability to use numbers to access items. I won't argue with you that this aspect of the S60 UI is more flexible than SE UI. And I have cheated a little by using hacking methods to create my own submenus within the SE menu, something that is out of range of the average user.
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Posted: 2007-12-11 00:39:15
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