Just to add, sony does make top quality laptops, i know because i've used them. They also make quality camcorders and BRAVIA LCDs
Thank you carkitter, some common sense at last!! I have also had about enough of this argument about consumer hatred being a driving force in marketshare results. As much as those like dogmann want to think that the majority of SE owners are disgruntled and swearing never to own SE phones again, it's simply not the truth.
The percentage of SE end users lost to SE due to P series and K850 problems is tiny compared to the high number of essentially satisfied users. The evangalism behind those dissatisfied former P series users who think the fire of their anger will inform and convince all others to turn from SE in a wave of idealistic fervour is quite frankly irrational.
Okay I agree P series had serious problems. K850 as the first A200 phone also had series problems. SE did not respond as promptly or as completely as they should have. SE are failing to compete with Nokia and Samsung on feature by feature basis. This is all true. But it has to be taken on the context of the SE productline as a whole, of which P series represents a very small segment, and K850 has overcome initial problems to become a strong sales point for SE. If there are millions of satisifed SE customers, whose handsets work as advertised, then the "wave of idealistic fervour" mentioned above has no relevance to them.
For SE to succeed they don't need to make the best camera phones, the best walkman phones, or fix the p series. They just need to keep doing what they have already started, which is to broaden their market appeal with a variety of handsets in different styles and feature sets.
I'm also a bit fed up with the whole "SE using Walkman and Cybershot branding is a big lie" catch cry.
Despite the claims that SE branding is bringing down SE credibility, it's not true. The majority of end users with a Walkman phone are satisfied because it serves well as an MP3 player. Likewise with cybershot. Someone somewhere draws a comparison between for example a Walkman phone and says a certain Nokia phone has better audio quality and suddenly they claim that SE branding is a lie. Why? Since when did a manufacturer lose the right to package a product for a certain market segment unless it happens to te the best available?
Okay okay, I know in the heads of many who like to go on about this branding issue, they see the Walkman phones as having shit quality audio, and the cybershot phones as being poor imaging devices, but they are misguided by their own anti-SE fanatacism. If you actually look at the comparisons, the cybershot and walkman phones are as good at what they do as the competition, with advantages and disadvantages that balance out both sides of the arguments. Compared to digicams, ALL mobile phones cameras are crap, granted, but compared to eachother, for example K850 camera to N95 camera, neither can claim any clear advantage over the other. They are essentially as good as the other.
To split hairs on this issue and claim one or the other manufacturer is vastly superior in terms of imaging or audio, is to display an irrational bias.
On 2008-09-01 08:16:08, max_wedge wrote:
On 2008-09-01 01:16:53, carkitter wrote:
to split hairs on this issue and claim one or the other manufacturer is vastly superior in terms of imaging or audio, is to display an irrational bias.
Actually some of us earn a good living doing exactly that
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Posted: 2008-09-01 10:46:17
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On 2008-09-01 07:45:10, QVGA wrote:
Just to add, sony does make top quality laptops, i know because i've used them. They also make quality camcorders and BRAVIA LCDs
don't forget they make good computer monitors (or used to) I have a sony sdm-hs95p right now and it is as good as any bravia x series in terms of brightness,contrast and colour reproduction
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Posted: 2008-09-01 10:54:53
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On 2008-09-01 10:54:53, yea g wrote:
On 2008-09-01 07:45:10, QVGA wrote:
Just to add, sony does make top quality laptops, i know because i've used them. They also make quality camcorders and BRAVIA LCDs
don't forget they make good computer monitors (or used to) I have a sony sdm-hs95p right now and it is as good as any bravia x series in terms of brightness,contrast and colour reproduction
yep. i once had a dell 21'' CRT. It was awesome and it used sony's trinitron technology. Also when it comes to style, nothing beats sony. I know people will say what does style has to do when buying a TV, and my answer is that when i spend 5000$ on something, the least i want it for it to be good looking in my house.
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[ This Message was edited by: QVGA on 2008-09-01 09:57 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-01 10:56:32
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If its been said once, it's been said a thousand times, SE's market share has seriously declined over the past two years, that IMO is due to overpricing and uncompetitive products, gloss over that all you will, but something needs to be done to halt the slide.
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Posted: 2008-09-01 11:17:10
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On 2008-08-31 10:45:30, Dogmann wrote:
@Goldenface,
So not only are you a die hard SE fan but Sony to there is one thing you said in your post's which was
"It worked didn't it" and that really sums it up past tense it did work it doesn't any longer and as Bart has pointed out Sony are just no longer the great company they once were either.
How ever much you liked Sony over recent years it has charged a premium for it's name whilst the quality of it's products has dropped. I know because i only used to buy Sony and was happy to pay extra for the better quality they delivered. My last Sony Desktop Computer died after 15 months and would of cost more to repair than buy a new one. My last Sony laptop in under a year all the letters started disappearing off the keys and it became so slow it was virtually unusable even after re formating and reloading it's virtually useless and only used for flashing my phones now. Which is why my current Laptop is a Toshiba and you know what it's 18 months old now and still perfect and was cheaper than paying for Vaio brand name and worse quality and spec.
This is what many of us talk about when we say the Sony effect on SE it's branding and marketing at a premium price over quality. All Sony wants is money and whilst they managed to fool most of the people most of the time that just isn't working any longer. Sony no longer stands for quality it stand for being ripped off and hence there falling sales and profits as the competition just all offer better value and products. Only brand snobs remain loyal and deserve all they get strangely enough just like with SE.
Marc
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The simple fact that nearly every one of SE's best selling devices are either Walkman or Cyber-shot branded speaks volumes to me.
Couple this with the simple fact the the JV has brought in hundreds of millions to both parent companies, quite a turn around from a Ericsson's 1.1 billion dollar loss, no matter which way you look at it.
Of course Sony is in it for the money, and so is Ericsson. Its a business and businesses are all about making money.
It isn't a non-profit making organisation. They haven't set up a charity, in which we all set up a Direct Debit and each month we all donate to the 'Adopt a Phone Foundation'.
The simple fact that Sony and Ericsson received massive financial dividends from the JV means it works for both of them. Like I said, the JV has been booming for years, a couple of dodgy quarters won't force them go their separate ways, not unless they find they just can't work together.
BTW I also have a Sony Vaio, Bravia TV, DVD Player and VGF-WA1 Media Streamer. ALL work flawlessly, thanks. If they made washing machines that would probably be Sony too.
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Posted: 2008-09-01 11:21:10
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@Carkitter
Well how about trying to stick with the truth then and not quoting me with things i haven't said to start with.
"@Dogmann
Comments like "Sony are not the company they were 8 yrs ago; they are worse" are debunked by the Fortune magazine article I linked to several pages ago and the whole 'consumer hatred drives market share results' theory is absurd. There are many other reasons for market share fluctuations, and these are bourne out by market research of the type undertaken and posted by Michael Mace on his excellent blog and other credible media sources of which MR is not one. If you do PROPER research into the topics for discussion you'll find that out.
Oh and please take your own advice re: reading your posts before hitting SUBMIT; your comments are becoming unintelligable. "
As please show me anywhere i have said what you are claiming i have said as opposed to what you would like to imagine i have said to support your feeble argument. Either show me where i have said that or retract your LIE.
Oh yes of course market research is ever so reliable especially when depending on who commissions it effects the results. I really can't believe just how even you can believe half the rubbish you post and just where do you get your assumption that my information comes from MR as it's of course completely wrong.
What are you a mind reader? Stop trying to think you know what MO or motivations are or where i get my information and knowledge from. As quite clearly believing what you want to be true about me is as quite different from reality.
You clearly just don't have a clue do you again try sticking to the truth rather than what you want to be true. I'm beginning to think your another one of these 12-16 old kids living out his all powerful fantasies over the Net.
I tell you what stop telling lies about me and I won't bother getting into discussions with you as it's just not worth it as you just don't do reality do you?
As for this last quote of yours
"@MWEB
If Dogmann's posts deteriorate any further, we'll need a translator. It's obvious that the critics of SE and Sony see their opinions as being evidence enough while those backing up SE and Sony are quite happy to provide references and discuss matters based on facts.
As someone required to write reports using APA referencing for my assignments it's clear to me whose arguments are credible."
You really are seriously delusional my personal advice would be seek immediate medical help as you and reality just don't occupy the same space do they? Oh yes and your not paranoid everyone is out to get you LMAO.
@Goldenface
What you say is true but that's all past tense the same old stuff isn't working anymore consumers get bored. But lets just wait and see what happens towards the first half of next year and then we will see just how successful and healthy SE is. It's all very well saying SE are great the best blah blah blah but the results and only the results count.
Marc
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Nokia E90, 8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-09-01 12:27 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-01 12:23:11
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On 2008-08-27 23:49:02, Sony α wrote:
@Soane28
Agreed all the way - with Hideki San at the helm, former head of the VAIO arm at Sony - decisions will be Sony Orientated from now, I feel as much anyhow - which is good.
Plus, Stringer and Komiyama are already well acquainted from Komiyama's past work with Sony Corp!
I have to say I feel the exact opposite, Sony are THE root cause of the appalling SW we have been subjected to Sony have never been able to write code that was not machine resource hungry bug filled and generally hopeless.
Examples: The next to unuseable"MovieShaker" as supplied with the Uber Expensive IP7 micro MV Video Cameras "the truly horrible machine "owning" "MG Jukebox" supplied with the top end Net MD recorders. I know I was mug enough to buy all of them and ownership convinced me that Sony simply cannot write code and secondly I would NEVER again buy one of their video cameras!
Sony corp are also the partner with a reputation for constantly changing storage media, & charging devices! I understand that using Micro SD and Mini USB does not generate as much money for the company as keep changing their offering, but the world has enough chargers and chips floating around already STANDARDIZE PLEASE
In short I would say Sony corp have done Ericsson's reputation in the mobile phone market no end of damage I am seriously considering not buying anymore
products due to their constant delays and poor record on quality control and shoddy product build quality.
[ This Message was edited by: Nitro Fan on 2008-09-01 11:49 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-01 12:48:30
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On 2008-09-01 01:16:53, carkitter wrote:
@bart
K700 was an exceptional phone, I know 'cause I had a (Vodafone branded) one. It was ground breaking in many respects and sold in huge numbers. It was many peoples first introduction to SE, bluetooth, themes, MP3 players, colour screens, PC connectivity, MyPhoneExplorer and Esato.
The K700 was a bloody awful phone - my friend had one, and thinking back it was my first warning that the SE joint venture was not all it should be. I had the P800 at the time, which was a high-technology Ericsson product in all but name, but the K700 seriously made me wonder where the JV was going. Very ugly, soul-less design, cheap and nasty build (the P800 was also partly guilty of that), numerous bugs that even my fairly undemanding friend noticed, and a lack of memory that put it curiously behind the competition at the time, and severely limited it's attempts at being a camera and music player (not that it would have been a good camera even with a memory slot) - "ground breaking" it most certainly was not!
If things had carried on in that vein, and not improved dramatically with the K750, I think SE would have been in a lot of trouble a lot sooner.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-09-01 11:56 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-01 12:55:18
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