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All i'm asking you to do Marc is to see both sides of the coin, it's not difficult, honestly.
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Posted: 2009-01-20 12:35:46
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MWEB, what you say is correct and congratulations on not being brainwashed by the western media, not an easy thing to avoid.
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Posted: 2009-01-20 12:37:55
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@MWEB
Believe me i do see both sides and would like nothing more than peace in the Middle East like most sane rational human beings.
But the problem is the Palestinian children are brought up to hate Israel and the Jews they are brain washed that they are the enemy. What chance does peace stand in those conditions? no one is saying the casualties on both sides aren't terrible and shouldn't happen. But really when you are having rockets fired at your civilians daily what are you meant to do nothing?
Israel didn't brake the ceasefire Hamas did and all Hamas had to do to avoid the escalation in hostilities was stop launching rockets. Which it didn't it continued to fire them and chose residential areas where it's people live to launch them from. How can they possibly be surprised when they are attacked and the answer is they are not it's what they want to happen. They have very little regard for the safety or lives of their own people if it serves their propaganda. Now that is sad IMO and shows a total disregard to the value of any life from any side.
Also lets just remember who calls for the destruction of their enemy and refuses to try and find a peaceful settlement. As well as just who broke the last cease fire and started hostilities again? heres a clue it wasn't Israel.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2009-01-20 11:58 ]
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Posted: 2009-01-20 12:57:25
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Hi!
I am Irish, but not a christian, and feel Ireland should belong solely to the Irish, but I know it is never so simple.... All that live in Ireland have rights..
let me add a simplistic view...
I believe the IRA who kill and murder British soldiers and civilians, both Protestant and Catholic are murderers.
I also believe that the killings and murders carried British Soldiers and Protestants, are also murders.
What I would like to see is, within this discussion, is for
all esato members, whether they be Muslim, Jewish, Christian, or whatever religion to
denounce the use of violence... by either side..
I know the balance of deaths on Palestinian and Isreali sides are not equal..
but one death is more than enough
Ofiaich
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Posted: 2009-01-20 12:57:53
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Simplistic views are often the wisest Ofiaich, and your's has much merit
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Posted: 2009-01-20 13:01:56
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hi MWEB,
lets hope then, that in this thread,
all esato members, whether they be
Muslim, Jewish, Christian, or whatever religion to
denounce the use of violence... by either side..
I notice no one rushing to post....
Ofiaich
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esato since Nov, 12, 2001
[ This Message was edited by: ofiaich on 2009-01-20 12:23 ]
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Posted: 2009-01-20 13:13:22
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Hi Ofiaich,
I thought i had with
"Believe me i do see both sides and would like nothing more than peace in the Middle East like most sane rational human beings"
Which of course means an end to the violence and senseless killing by all and denounces the use of violence by all also as that's the only way it can work. Hatred fuels more violence and is a negative energy and why the world is in such a mess in the first place. As it's not just the Middle East plagued with trouble and so i feel a John Lennon moment coming
ALL WE ARE SAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHANCE
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2009-01-20 17:15 ]
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Posted: 2009-01-20 13:30:54
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@Dogmann,
point taken, but I meant after my post...
Ofiaich
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Posted: 2009-01-20 14:01:42
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naveedaziz83 Posts: > 500
Islam is the religion of peace and does not harbor or teaches violence at all. As far as war is concerned, there are strict rules and regulations in Islam. First, one cannot go to war without the permission of the Caliph. Second, if there is a war, Islam prohibits the killing of people without arms, women, children, old and those who except defeat. Islam prohibits destroying of houses and cutting down trees. That's how peaceful this religion is.
What Hamas is doing (firing rockets and killing innocent people) is wrong. But as pointed out many times here and other threads, they have the right to get back what was taken from them; their land, their freedom. Islam does give a right to self-defense and to fight against any wrong-doing being done to you.
As far as the suicide bombings are concerned, what would you do if your entire family has been killed? What would you do if any one would kill your father, your son or your brother in front of you? I know this is wrong. There is no such concept of suicide bombing in Islam, but at that particular moment when instead of being together with your loved ones, you are carrying their graves who will not lose their temper. Any human being can tolerate as much.
Peace to all
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Posted: 2009-01-20 16:35:24
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@naveedaziz83,
Oh what a lot of great propaganda you do like to spout try checking out the facts as your beautifully just and poetic version is not any where close to the truth. Maybe you should of checked out the link i gave for some real facts about how HAMAS recruit brainwash and train their suicide bombers read below as this paints a very different version to yours.
"How does Hamas recruit and train suicide bombers?
The organization generally targets deeply religious young men—although some bombers have been older. The recruits do not fit the usual psychological profile of suicidal people, who are often desperate or clinically depressed. Hamas bombers often hold paying jobs, even in poverty-stricken Gaza. What they have in common, studies say, is an intense hatred of Israel. After a bombing, Hamas gives the family of the suicide bomber between three thousand dollars and five thousand dollars and assures them their son died a martyr in holy jihad.
The recruits undergo intense religious indoctrination, attend lectures, and undertake long fasts. The week before the bombing, the volunteers are watched closely by two Hamas activists for any signs of wavering, according to Nasra Hassan, writing in the New Yorker. Shortly before the "sacred explosion," as Hamas calls it, the bomber records a video testament. To draw inspiration, he repeatedly watches his video and those made by his predecessors and then sets off for his would-be martyrdom after performing a ritual ablution and donning clean clothes. Hamas clerics assure the bombers their deaths will be painless and that dozens of virgins await them in paradise. The average bombing costs about $150."
Because of course blowing yourself and innocent civilians to bits is painless isn't i mean the clerics wouldn't lie now would they? They are brain washed and fuelled by hate along with money and fame all good and true motives those aren't they?
So naveedaziz83 just how does that measure up to what you claim is Islamic with your statement that
" Islam is the religion of peace and does not harbor or teaches violence at all. As far as war is concerned, there are strict rules and regulations in Islam. First, one cannot go to war without the permission of the Caliph. Second, if there is a war, Islam prohibits the killing of people without arms, women, children, old and those who except defeat. Islam prohibits destroying of houses and cutting down trees. That's how peaceful this religion is."
As that doesn't quite seem to agree with the facts now does it? as that is exactly who suicide bombers target defenseless unarmed women and children. Oh and what about the homes and trees destroyed by indiscriminate rocket attacks on the civilian population of Israel as that according to you is against Islam as well. It does appear Hamas aren't very Islamic at all and just a bunch of hate fueled terrorists after all doesn't it?
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2009-01-20 17:31 ]
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Posted: 2009-01-20 18:27:56
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