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ares Posts: > 500

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 11:31:59, mib1800 wrote:
I thought that will be the most logical to do as most of Nokia's mid to high end phones are S60. And s60 phones are selling like "normal" phones nowaday.

btw: S60 UI was designed as advanced UI for normal non-touchscreen phone just like UIQ3 is more for touchscreen. Comparing UI is comparing how capable and the ease of use of the UI.

imo, the article is confusing the issue by using 6233 vs K800 as a represntation of s40 UI vs SE UI. There are variation in specs in implemetation of other s40 phone. The result may be different if the comparison is using 6233 vs SE J-series, isnt it?

I would'nt go so far to say SE UI is worse than S40 just because 6233 beats the J-series in factor like number of phonebook entry, support of java, speed of phone, mp3 player options etc.

Only you can´t see its perfectly logical to compare 6233´s UI with k800´s, just like it was k750 vs 6230i...and once again, SE´s product is so better...

6233 in NOT low end...it is replacing 6230i has choice for many business users (like my boss for instance)...its perfectly natural comparing it to SE´s similar device, k800

The fact that people keep comparing SE "dumb" (not so dumb anymore - check the multitasking power of k800 for instance) phones with s60 offer from nokia, only show how good and powerfull is SE non-UIQ OS

@mario, kid, my P990 is here, stable has it should, making people amazed everytime i show it...you´d like one don´t you??? You talk talk talk of nokia, but you wish one day to deserve to use a SE phone

_________________
P990i + hbh ds970

http://pbase.com/ares - photography by ares aka antonioj

[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2006-08-23 12:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2006-08-23 12:48 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-23 13:45:24
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mib1800 Posts: > 500

Quote: its perfectly natural comparing it to SE´s similar device, k800

Yes. I agree. BUT then you are comparing K800 PHONE against 6233 PHONE and not S40 UI against SE UI. And 6233 is much lower priced than K800, so we would expect its capability to be less.

My point has always been that if you were to compare UI, you just compare the merit of the UI itself (like ease of use, aesthetic, navigation flow, organisational logic, speed, capability of basic functions like messaging, calendar, profile etc). Things like camera, mp3, rss, web browser apps should not be included because these can vary from phone to phone eventhough the phones are using the same UI.
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Posted: 2006-08-23 14:24:34
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Vipera ammodytes Posts: > 500

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 14:24:34, mib1800 wrote:
Quote: its perfectly natural comparing it to SE´s similar device, k800

Yes. I agree. BUT then you are comparing K800 PHONE against 6233 PHONE and not S40 UI against SE UI. And 6233 is much lower priced than K800, so we would expect its capability to be less.

so what??? why nokia dont make dumb phone to competite with k800....k800 competitior is 6233(yes 6233 have lower price)....

you dont know what to say...then you say s60....compare s60 with uiq....
dumb category is something else

i must sugest to whizz for CLOWN Member (and yes i will give my vote for mario ofcourse)
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Posted: 2006-08-23 15:02:50
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DragonEye Posts: > 500

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 14:24:34, mib1800 wrote:
Quote: its perfectly natural comparing it to SE´s similar device, k800

And 6233 is much lower priced than K800, so we would expect its capability to be less.

does that also apply for s60 phones that are cheaper then the k800i? right

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Posted: 2006-08-23 15:31:08
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mib1800 Posts: > 500

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 15:31:08, DragonEye wrote:

does that also apply for s60 phones that are cheaper then the k800i? right

Some cheaper S60 dont have Opera / Netfront browser bundled, isnt it?
So K800 netfront browser will have advantage. But this advantage is definitely NOT attributed to UI but more of positioning of the phone in the market segment. Similar SE pump up the K800 camera program because it is camera-centric device. You dont see the K800 camera prog in lower end SE using the same SE UI.

So why is this so difficult to comprehend? It is kind of obvious to me.

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2006-08-23 17:26 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-23 18:25:01
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mario2002 Posts: > 500

What exactly are we comparing here? Nokia could not be bothered about K800 in particular and SE in general. While SE,Alcatel, Sharp etc. make cell phones, they are small players indeed. And none of them seem to be going anywhere for the last few years now. From a business point of view only a lunatic will worry about that. After a long IM chat a few days ago with a old buddy of mine, (nokia market analyst) the real competition is Motorola and Nokia knows that. Even Samsung is showing 'cracks'. To say 'the k800 is better than the S40 or S60 is like taking a wee in the Amazon river and worrying about busting its banks'. Anyway it makes entertaining chats on forums like this :). WM5 seems to raise its head higher and higher for nokia's liking. Thats the one Symbian in general and Nokia in particular has to keep an eye on. And Arez the P990i my brother bought while on a business trip in Scandinavia was a disaster. He already post it back. The internet browser had some problem. This message was posted from a Nokia
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Posted: 2006-08-23 19:07:38
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SL33PYH34D Posts: 486

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 19:07:38, mario2002 wrote:
Nokia could not be bothered about K800 in particular and SE in general. While SE,Alcatel, Sharp etc. make cell phones, they are small players indeed. And none of them seem to be going anywhere for the last few years now. From a business point of view only a lunatic will worry about that. After a long IM chat a few days ago with a old buddy of mine, (nokia market analyst) the real competition is Motorola and Nokia knows that. Even Samsung is showing 'cracks'.
SE may be a relatively small in terms of market share compared to Nokia, but their business model is sound and they make margin on phones that Nokia can only dream of. For the last few quarters SE profits have seen marked increases.
Suggest some light reading for you here and here detailing the last teo quarter's results.

Also worth reading is recent IDC Market share data for worldwide and europe

These are not the sort of results you see from a company that is not "going anywhere".

SE's stragegy has not been to complete with Nokia on the basis of flooding the market with cheap low margin phones, but in general to concentrate on the higher end, higher margin stuff, and IMO they have been very successful at it.
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Posted: 2006-08-23 19:52:14
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DragonEye Posts: > 500

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 18:25:01, mib1800 wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-08-23 15:31:08, DragonEye wrote:

does that also apply for s60 phones that are cheaper then the k800i? right

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 19:07:38, mario2002 wrote:
What exactly are we comparing here? Nokia could not be bothered about K800 in particular and SE in general. While SE,Alcatel, Sharp etc. make cell phones, they are small players indeed. And none of them seem to be going anywhere for the last few years now. From a business point of view only a lunatic will worry about that. After a long IM chat a few days ago with a old buddy of mine, (nokia market analyst) the real competition is Motorola and Nokia knows that. Even Samsung is showing 'cracks'. To say 'the k800 is better than the S40 or S60 is like taking a wee in the Amazon river and worrying about busting its banks'. Anyway it makes entertaining chats on forums like this

. WM5 seems to raise its head higher and higher for nokia's liking. Thats the one Symbian in general and Nokia in particular has to keep an eye on. And Arez the P990i my brother bought while on a business trip in Scandinavia was a disaster. He already post it back. The internet browser had some problem.

This message was posted from a Nokia

yes bring in mighty nokia's marketshare.. anybody on a forum is a cellphone lunatic and that's why it's discussed here.. but i think nokia highups will lose a bit of face if the k800i starts to shine in sales..

[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2006-08-23 19:00 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-23 19:54:43
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DragonEye Posts: > 500

Quote:
On 2006-08-23 11:31:59, mib1800 wrote:
I thought that will be the most logical to do as most of Nokia's mid to high end phones are S60. And s60 phones are selling like "normal" phones nowaday.

btw: S60 UI was designed as advanced UI for normal non-touchscreen phone just like UIQ3 is more for touchscreen. Comparing UI is comparing how capable and the ease of use of the UI.

imo, the article is confusing the issue by using 6233 vs K800 as a represntation of s40 UI vs SE UI. There are variation in specs in implemetation of other s40 phone. The result may be different if the comparison is using 6233 vs SE J-series, isnt it?

I would'nt go so far to say SE UI is worse than S40 just because 6233 beats the J-series in factor like number of phonebook entry, support of java, speed of phone, mp3 player options etc.

these 2 are the premium models for s40 and a100 and they are compared that way meaning s40 at it's current maxed out potential equals 6233 and SE UI maxed out equals k800i (no one is talking about better cam and what not.. even the review doesn't give points for those factors. (it was a tie in the review 1 for nokia video, 1 for se cam))

if you want to talk crappy J series, you can talk crappy s40 (nokia 6101 for example)

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[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2006-08-23 19:21 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2006-08-23 19:26 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-23 20:20:09
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mib1800 Posts: > 500

they make margin on phones that Nokia can only dream of

I think you got it the other way round.

since you're saying 6233 is cheap therefore k800i should be more capable.. well if s60 devices are more capable then it should be more expensive then k800i right?

You are taking it out of context. What I am saying is 6233 is positioned lower (i.e. spec-wise) in the market segment. s60 is inherently more capable is due to potential of the Symbian OS core.

meaning s40 at it's current maxed out potential equals 6233 and SE UI maxed out equals k800i (no one is talking about better cam and what not.. even the review doesn't give points for those factors. (it was a tie in the review 1 for nokia video, 1 for se cam))

I only have the following which I find about UI comparison are not valid:-
- he gives 2 points to K800 for webbrowser+rss which is a bundled netfront software and NOT related to UI/OS.
- he has 2 categories one for Java and one for multi-tasking. If you read his comment in this 2 categories he was just mentioning the same functionality. Both points went to K800.
- he purposely creates an "alarm clock" category which should be group under "Extra" functions. Why should a small "alarm clock" app takes equal weighting as the entire "Organiser". Obviously he gave this point to K800.

Like you say, camera and video recording capability should also not be in the comparison.

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Posted: 2006-08-24 05:59:00
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