>
New Topic
>
Reply<
Esato Forum Index
>
Sony Ericsson / Sony >
Symbian phones
> Is se 'killing' uiq?
Bookmark topic
Hi Ares,
Well to be honest firstly many UIQ supporters claim a non touchscreen device isn't a smart phone!!. Secondly i wouldn't say Motorola's history with smart phones is anything to shout about either and again you have got me completely wrong.
I actually want to see SE succeed with UIQ and smart phones and in the past they have delivered some ground breaking and brilliant devices. Just unlike some i am not as forgiving over what they have done with UIQ3 and the state they released the first trench of devices and personally think anyone that defends SE for what they have done is laughable.
Especially your favourite suggestion when any one has a problem to reformat and do a master reset as IMO that is just laughable from a so called flagship device. I really don't care what anyone thinks as far as i am concerned SE where completely wrong to release the P990 in the state they did this action is inexcusable and to be honest whilst the M600 and W950 where better they were also still far from being at an acceptable level. Still after all these updates many are not happy with thier devices you are so good for you and Koto and the others like you.
You don't have to be a genius to read on all the Forums how many people are pissed and disappointed by SE's actions and look at how the market value of your prised devices has fallen. I really can't remember any other products losing so much value so quickly. I nearly bought a P990 the other day as i can now get one for around £200 but thought better of it and bought a TyTN and whilst that is a great device i just don't like touchscreens anymore and much prefer my N93 which now has Skype as well as all the other things i need and want. Everyone is free to buy and use what ever they are happy with but those of you that defend SE and their actions do not have my respect as you are defending the indefensible SE where wrong and they better get it right with the next devices or there shrinking smart phone market share will only be left to true SE fanatics. I take it you have read Michal's review of the E90 where he states P990 users would love the ability to Multi task with 80mb of free Ram for the user now that is a proper business smart phone even without a touchscreen.
Marc
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 12:31:49
Edit :
Quote
@chamak,
If i need to find where I'm going i start Tom Tom and unlike your touchscreen i can see mine in virtually every lighting condition my screen doesn't become invisible. If you look at Symbian Smart Phones sales which is in the millions how many are touchscreens? not many so you may well believe a Smart phone needs a touchscreen but millions of happy smart phone users don't this is merely your opinion and is not supported by facts. I can also scroll using a mouse cursor with my D pad in my web browser far quicker and with greater accuracy than having to get out a Stylus and keep on tapping again it may be your preference but it is no longer mine. This is the point all of you that insist how great a Touchscreen is this is only your preference and certainly not the majority i hate to tell you just because this is what you believe doesn't make it so.
Marc
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 12:44:36
Edit :
Quote
Well, in my P990 i have both touch screen operation, and normal phone operation...and qwerty keyboard by the way
And you already know fring is gonna be out for UIQ also, so i don´t see why you brag so much about it
This topic is about SE and UIQ, and the truth is SE is finnaly doing it RIGHT...its gonna expand it through their lines of medium-high devices (and that is why UIQ phones without TS will be important), its gonna license it to other Companys, etc
The fact that Motorola, one of the biggest phone companys in the world put UIQ has priority on they future strategy is also very significant
The question is not if TS is better or not, SE will have both types
Quote:where he states P990 users would love the ability to Multi task with 80mb of free Ram for the user now that is a proper business smart phone even without a touchscreen.
Well, Michal just said to me this little thing, the E90 has 2 times the total RAM of P990 AND N93 AND N95, and FOUR times the operating RAM of those devices, that ALL have and will have problems with multitasking
So, you just have to wait to see how much RAM the new UIQ devices will have, and then compare...
And stop the hipocrisy about n93 being so perfect, yes yours seems to perform good, like my P990, but you just have to read nokia based forums to see the truth about that device and other s60 v3´s - all have problems with memory!
_________________
P990i + hbh ds970
http://pbase.com/ares - photography by ares aka antonioj
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2007-02-14 11:58 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2007-02-14 12:04 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2007-02-14 12:07 ]
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 12:55:24
Edit :
Quote
Hi Ares,
Sorry but i don't see any evidence of SE getting it right as yet it has got better but there is still plenty more that needs doing. Yes Motorola where not only one of the first Cellular companies and are also one of the biggest but this is partially due to their home market being the USA with more people. As far as thier history goes with smart phones correct me if I'm wrong but it none too impressive they have used Linux and failed i am still waiting to see thier Blackberry and E61 killer the Q and think maybe we should wait to see a finished product before singing it's praises.
I have had two updates for my N93 the first increased my Ram by a little over 5mb the second increased speed drastically and resolved the few niggles that were left. Yes you are right not all are as happy as i am with my N93 but seeing as how many users there are of the N93 the numbers of those with problems is quite small. Can you honestly say the same for UIQ3? It's all very well you saying SE have sorted out the problems but on paper the P990 should of been a great device lets actually see what SE deliver with these new devices before praising or condoning them as history so far is not in there favour. Which part of the fact that i hope SE are successful in delivering a product users deserve do you not understand. I am only pissed at what they have done so far which is just not good enough IMHO.
Marc
_________________
Nokia Black N93,2gb SanDisk MiniSD & TomTom6,AD-46,Sony MDR-EX71SL.
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-02-14 12:40 ]
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 13:35:42
Edit :
Quote
Quote:Can you honestly say the same for UIQ3?
actually, yes, i now have way more free RAM than 3 months ago, and i´m only talking about the P990...both M600 and W950, also UIQ 3 remember, have more free RAM. And yes, i know alot of people that is NOW satisfied with the P990 in special, because the M600 and W950 had less problems from start
about Motorola, well, the most read coment about the new z8 is "finally Motorola got a decent OS on theyr RAZR type phones"...i have not a single doubt it it will be a hit, knowing how much those type of phones sell normally, and great for UIQ overral
i also think the little detail that new UIQ phones by Moto are work of the ex-Sendo X team and not the usual Motorola teams must have escaped you
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2007-02-14 12:49 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2007-02-14 12:50 ]
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 13:47:56
Edit :
Quote
Hey mib, thought you'd pop in after that post of mine!
Quote:
On 2007-02-14 05:40:36, mib1800 wrote:
I think Nokia dont see any urgency in touchscreen. If TS is so hot, Nokia would have easily churn out more phones using S90 (while waiting for S60 to ready TS support).
Look, Nokia bring out one touchscreen recently, and it runs UIQ 2 for God's sake. If s60 is so good for touchscreen use, why use UIQ2? And s90 obviously doesn't cut it either or they would have used it.
Quote:
User may not know definition of smartphone but they may not so ignorance as you make them out to be. Unlike you
, they would not say "nothing substantial" to bigger screen, higher color, GPS, EDGE, WIFI, office doc support, good video recording and other multimedia like Flash/realplayer, great web browser, good games, online service like Nokia search, maps, YouTube etc that are characteristics of S60 phones.
the average s60 smartphone doesn't have wifi, doesn't have bigger or better screen, doesn't have better video or multimedia, doesn't have wifi, doesn't have GPS. I am comparing midrange s60 handsets to midrange SE handsets, not the big guns.
I agree that some of the high end Nokia's have better screens, video etc but you always compare THE BEST Nokia of the day with mid-range SE phone. You have to compare apples to apples. I'm not so stupid as to compare an N90 series phone against a non-smart SE. N70 series on the other hand has far less of the advantages you claim.
Quote:
For someone (like you) who knows so much about smartphone multi-tasking, why the self-degradation in trying to imply that "java multitask"
is the same as real multi-tasking.
If applications is what I want to multitask, then JAVA can do it. Yes there are a lot of crap JAVA apps, but there are also many excellent ones. As developers realise the JAVA platform is true multitasking, and as manufacturers (such as SE who are leading the way) incorporate advanced JAVA api's into their phones, the sky's the limit.
"Java ME (formerly known as J2ME) will be on more than a billion handsets this year, which if I'm not mistaken must make it the most widely deployed software platform of all time"
http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=115
So JAVA is an even more popular software platform than s60! (I myself think Nokia use s60 because their s40 isn't suitable for phones that compete with the likes of K800, W850, rather than because they perceive the market want superior multitasking)
Also, you completely fail to realise the extent of multi-tasking possible between hardware functions. For example, on my K750, which doesn't have java multitasking, I can run a java app or take photos while listening to music, minimise Opera Mini to make a phone call, run java apps in the background, minimise JAVA to access pda functions to name but a few handy multi-tasking abilities. With Activity Menu, I can access all this easily with one button.
Even with multi-tasking, to me without a touchscreen it's cumbersome and fiddly and you just can't get around the issue of text input or scrolling (I use my xda for vnc access also, but over bluetooth while in the lounge)
Quote:
Then tell me why SE bought UIQ?
Why do Moto bother to come out with Z8?
And there are group of users (like me) who made up a substantial portion of your so-called "market" who think you are talking bull.
SE bought UIQ because they plan to use it. Simple. Not to shelve it, why would they do that? There is no way SE will ever use s60, that's obvious to anyone with any sense. If they do, Nokia will make it impossible for them to use it in such a way that it suits their own needs. So they will stick with UIQ. And in due course, we'll see UIQ hardscreen used in a similar way that Nokia use s60. However, JAVA platform support will continue to grow. With superior JAVA platform, SE are hedging their bets, plus also retaining a powerful application platform for low end phones (presuming mid to high end phones eventually will be UIQ hard and soft screen versions respectively)
BTW, What I say, I say with good reason and with considered judgement. Nothing I say is "Bull". I MAY be incorrect, I can accept that I'm not always right about things, but I don't speak bullshit. If I say it I mean it.
Now one thing that makes me a little biased, mobile phone internet is horrendously expensive in Australia, so I haven't had much opportunity to get a real world feel for full internet access, nor to test the mini-map function of Nokia internet browsers. I used my PocketPC the other day to access about 2 minutes worth of Virtual Earth (like google earth) and it cost me about $25 (2cents per kb).
However, while interent access is becoming an issue, most manufacturers are working on addressing this with decent inbuilt browsers. Nokia happen to have the edge now, but that won't last.
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 13:54:49
Edit :
Quote
Hi ares,
No of course i am aware of that but currently the UIQ3 code still has problems and as you are happy to mention the Sendo Team do you remember just how delayed that particular smart phone from them was? and the problems it had.
How much extra Ram do you now have and how many updates has this taken? My Ram was improved with the first update what ever you say there is no way i am ever going to believe the P990 should of been released until possibly the last firmware or at a push the one before it.
If you are seriously saying it is OK to release a device that needs numerous firmware revisions over nearly 6 months to work at an acceptable level to put it bluntly you are stark raving mad.
Marc
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 13:56:27
Edit :
Quote
@chamak
Quote:now shoot something that a non-touchscreen can do and a touchscreen can't.
How about
1. One-handed use
2. Protected LCD / non-fragile
3. Non-faded screen
TS has its advantages. But it also comes with baggage like use with both hands, fragile, washed out etc. For business user who needs to enter a lot of text a TS has advantage. For most other users it does not make that much different.
You may prefer a TS but to say a smartphone without TS is less functional is bullock.
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 13:57:50
Edit :
Quote
Quote:
On 2007-02-14 13:56:27, Dogmann wrote:
Hi ares,
No of course i am aware of that but currently the UIQ3 code still has problems and as you are happy to mention the Sendo Team do you remember just how delayed that particular smart phone from them was? and the problems it had.
How much extra Ram do you now have and how many updates has this taken? My Ram was improved with the first update what ever you say there is no way i am ever going to believe the P990 should of been released until possibly the last firmware or at a push the one before it.
If you are seriously saying it is OK to release a device that needs numerous firmware revisions over nearly 6 months to work at an acceptable level to put it bluntly you are stark raving mad.
Marc
1 - Sendo produced one of the best smartphones available at the time, taht is fact, and is highly respected. Its important for Moto. And the z8 is ready you know, launch in APRIL
2 - I´m not saying all went well with the P990, it had the problems of the youth of UIQ3, same has the first devices of s60 v3, with the added complexity of having to work both on flip on and flip off modes. But i was aware of all this when i bought the device in August, and i thought it would worth it, because still today there´s no device offering me all the P990 gives me.
Next UIQ devices from SE and other companys will just reinforce the idea that they are indeed in the right track
_________________
P990i + hbh ds970
http://pbase.com/ares - photography by ares aka antonioj
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2007-02-14 13:07 ]
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 14:05:25
Edit :
Quote
Quote:
On 2007-02-14 13:57:50, mib1800 wrote:
@chamak
Quote:now shoot something that a non-touchscreen can do and a touchscreen can't.
How about
1. One-handed use
2. Protected LCD / non-fragile
3. Non-faded screen
TS has its advantages. But it also comes with baggage like use with both hands, fragile, washed out etc. For business user who needs to enter a lot of text a TS has advantage. For most other users it does not make that much different.
You may prefer a TS but to say a smartphone without TS is less functional is bullock.
Mib I do agree with your points about the ease of using a candybar (or other hardscreen format) compared to touchscreens, and it's the reason I still use a high end candybar as my preferred form factor for a phone.
However, I will say this: I CAN use my XDA mini singlehanded for all uses other than inputting text, though texting and dialing can be done easily enough on the phone pad. The screen is extremely tough (touchscreens aren't bare lcd's) and to be honest visibility is not that much worse than any phone in the direct sun. So a real button pad IS easier to use, but with a bit of use the numerous advantages of a touchscreen become more than enough compensation for the slightly more cumbersome ergonomics and screen issues.
Scrolling etc is just one other very useful advantage, but it's the ability to write quickly and efficently on it. I can write on my XDA faster than I can type (about 40wpm)
my use of a smartphone is more like the way I use a computer. It's not versatile to me unless I can write or type on it as well as tweak it, and other smartphone aspects don't really appeal to me enough to buy any of the N series phones, cool though they are, simply because of my preference for the SE UI. I just don't like using the Nokia UI.
I do have to say though, the only reason I haven't gone all out to aquire an SE symbian, is because of the size of P990 and the lack of cameras in M600 and W950. The ONLY 2 reasons. It is a poor showing on SE's part, hopefully soon fixed. They always start out slow before they get serious about something.
So I am bound to have a smartphone for mobile computing needs (if possible I would have the W950 right now!) and my K750 (or soon K810) for phone/camera/mp3 player use.
Now if Nokia had a touchscreen N73 variant, I would sit up and take notice. As it is they're just not an option for me. See how frustrating Nokia's insistance on ignoring touchscreens is? That's why I stick with SE, because they will soon come out with some awesome touchscreen smartphones that have all the goodies as well: autofocus camera, wifi, 3G, (hey that describes the P990!) but this time in a small form factor, aka P990 on steroids in a M600 shell.
--
Posted: 2007-02-14 15:01:18
Edit :
Quote
New Topic
Reply
