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I'm not going to trawl through posts Marc, but if your constant obsession with "last year's" processor etc in the P1 wasn't a comment on its performance, what was it about?



A oft-quoted "truth" in this forum that I've yet to see any real-world evidence for. The fact is that Wifi B is still considerably faster than the internet connection at virtually any hotspot, so why would any hotspot bother to disable it?

My cheap router seems to be perfectly capable of maintaining a simultaneous connection to my PC at full "G" speed, while my laptop with a "B" card is also connected. Is it performing some sort of miracle, or are the "dangers" of Wifi B being greatly exaggerated?



And yet the P1 with the same chip is still, reportedly, faster than the M600 and P990 before it. So it was never the chip that was holding things back, was it? The chip had more potential, didn't it?



Let me answer that with some more questions. Firstly, why did all the networks invest so much in video calling? Why do all the phone companies, including SE, still insist on including dedicated video-call cameras in their designs? When you compare all that effort and expense with the actual takeup of video calling (is there any?) was it remotely worth it? Is it just possible that misjudgments were made over the expected demand and application of that technology? Is it just possible that manufacturers still feel compelled to "tick the box" and include the technology anyway, rather than seem behind the times?

One more question just to finish off - what is HSDPA for? I've got all the mobile video I want (and lets face it, that's not much). I've got emails that come through in a second, I've got fast web browsing that's only a step away from desktop speeds. What are you going to get with your HSDPA phone over the next couple of years that I won't have with my P1? I've asked you this before, but what's the killer "data centric" application that I'm going to miss out on, by not having HSDPA?

[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2007-07-19 12:06 ]
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Posted: 2007-07-19 12:54:58
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I would add that HSDPA will only allow providers to push you to download more crap and therefore charge you more (not higher prices, but higher volumes). You will be able able to watch Youtube (I couldn't care less). You might be able to have better feed on video calling but like Boing said who is really using it? You could argue that a better quality feed would lead to a mass adoption, but I'm not sure about that. For VOIP, the gain would be marginal as UMTS has proven to be plenty efficient on this front (depending on your client and provider).

For the moment, HSDPA will only allow you to download more "Premium Provider content" at a faster rate. I can easily live without that.

Now if there was a FREE TV feed available through a special client, HSDPA would be really interesting. Until then, I don't need it.
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Posted: 2007-07-19 13:34:04
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Does anyone know if the P1 will support memory stick micro cards of up to 4gb? I believe they are out and would skip the 2gb to buy the 4gb.
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Posted: 2007-07-19 13:34:20
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@tkao - I'm sure it will, I'm pretty sure the M600 already does.

@remirez - exactly, things like Youtube are fine until you have to pay for them by the byte, at which point they become a complete waste of money and time. In any case, video clips of that sort of quality (and better) are already available over standard 3G, if that's what floats your boat. I have Vodafone's "Mobile TV" on my M600 right now - I signed up to their £3pm package just out of curiosity - and the picture's fine, it's all quite watchable, but if I'm honest I don't often find time to be sat around watching anything on my mobile. So here we have a technology that (a) works fine as it is, and (b) I don't really have a use for anyway, and I should be worried that my P1 won't benefit from some improved version in the future? Who cares!

[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2007-07-19 12:48 ]
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Posted: 2007-07-19 13:36:26
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I'll add something else for argument's sake abou the processor of the P1i. It's not a domain where I'm very knowledgeable and I don't have time to google all this; but by using a slower CPU wouldn't the P1i benefit from a longer battery life? It's all fine having powerful CPU's in you handheld devices but if you need to plug them everyday sometimes twice a day. You lose a big chunk of the advantage of having a mobile device.
CPUs speed increases every other month and I know they also improve the energy efficiency of these babies but the battery evolution is kind of slow and I don't really want to have to carry my charger with me everyday.
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Posted: 2007-07-19 14:26:59
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since many devices don't support the ancient wifi-certification which is used by SE
i can't use wifi with my router
i can't use p990 wifi with my phonebox
i can't use p990 wifi at train staitions
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Posted: 2007-07-19 14:28:47
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@remirez, don't forget that the P1 has the new BST-40 (1120mah I think, vs 950mah) with increased capacity so that should take care of any extra power consumption the device needs
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Posted: 2007-07-19 14:30:26
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@Boing

You said it and then follow it up with

"I'm not going to trawl through posts Marc, but if your constant obsession with "last year's" processor etc in the P1 wasn't a comment on its performance, what was it about?2


Well you were the one to make that claim so i would of thought you could support it otherwise it is just you making things up isn't it? and trying to put words in my mouth that i haven't said.

As to my making the point that the processor is actually more like 2 years plus old that is merely a statement of fact and isn't really disputable now is it?

Of course it will effect the performance as it s an old chip incapable of giving VGA video recording or supporting HSDPA. If SE used a better and newer processor it could match the performance that Moto have gotten from UIQ couldn't they?

For the sake of my sanity why do you always twist this to being about speed, the simple fact whether you like it or not if a Network has both b.g or even n support once a b device joins the whole Networks performance is effected. Hot spots are trying to give the user the best performance possible as most are charging people to use them. There are less Hot spots offering coverage for the b band due to this as b is now becoming very old and this is one of the reasons why certain B equipped equipped devices can see a Network but not connect or use it. No one cares what you do in your home as it doesn't effect any one else, does it?

Are you really this unreasonable that you can not understand the reason why the P1 outperforms the previous UIQ devices as it is really simple, firstly it has the extra Ram and secondly SE have now manged along with the Ram OS improvements. The chip has not improved and is still why these devices don't have VGA video recording or HSDPA.

The reason that the Networks invested in 3G was for the extra bandwidth and yes they mistakenly thought Video calling was going to be a killer app. As it happened i never did much the same as i believed that Wap was also a waste of time.

The only growth left for the mobile Networks is indeed Data and as both the processors , graphics and speeds on our devices increases along with transmission speeds this will lead to higher quality services. This is not just down to high quality Video but even image intensive Web pages will download at between 12 and 24 times as fast which will make Web browsing a much better and enjoyable experience.

Please be realistic 384kbps maximum speed is no where near desktop speeds not even close the average Broadband speed is around 2mbps so you are 6 or 7 times slower and that is a fact. HSDPA offers currently 1.8mbps now that is approaching Desk top speeds but by year end it will be 3.6-7.2mbps and that is faster than current desk top speeds. But all of that is irrelevant to you as unless you get a K850 your SE device won't be able to take advantage. While at the same time all around you people will be using this improved technology on their devices. Now if SE lacking this tech makes them better you really have to be joking.

The increase in speed between normal 3G and HSDPA is not tiny or insignificant and will lead to better quality content for all. If you really can't see that then you obviously don't really need Data is the only conclusion i can come to. I really find this perverse logic you try and justify the lack of HSDPA whilst all around are embracing it you are happy to think it's wonderful not having it. Well lets just see how you all feel in 6 months to a Year when all these new services with high qaulity feeds are available and you can't use them. Why when you and a colleague of friend are looking at something his device is 5or 6 times faster whilst you are still waiting. But hey its your money you spend it how you like but please stop pretending HSDPA is not a great advancement for Data as that's just not supported by the facts if you like them or even believe them is irrelevant.

Marc


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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-07-19 13:58 ]
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Posted: 2007-07-19 14:58:36
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himlims, what make and model is your router? I'd be amazed if it doesn't support B!
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Posted: 2007-07-19 14:59:54
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I am also amazed knowing about public hotspots (trainstation?) not using b mode or b+g...
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Posted: 2007-07-19 15:14:28
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