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@Max,
But what about the performance decrease JP-8 appears to have brought? as you know the Boot time for the K850 is slower than the K800 @ 30seconds. Which means my current S60 smart phones OS boots faster. Also as you know from the SE site they are now advising restarting your device to release memory and improve performance, something that strangely is no longer such a big problem any longer with sufficient Ram and Demand Paging on my OS of choice.
Now please don't misunderstand me i am not saying Java is terrible or useless all i am saying is it is only good if it suits the individual users needs and that really is all that is important IMO.
But i really don't feel it is superior in performance than some smart phone Os's as they have also evolved and made great improvements with more to come. So both options are improving and should continue to do so which can only be a good thing for all users and their OS of choice.
The same as talking about the Nvidia Graphics chip S60 has no need for this as the OMAP Chip already comes with a powerful Graphics capabilities hence it is able to produce VGA 30fps Video recording. The next generation of OMAP chips takes this even further and reduces power consumption as well and these chips should be seen in our devices from next year.
The only thing i disagree with is people trying to say how slow or buggy an smart phone OS is and how much better Java is than it. Really the more options and choices we have the better it is for all consumers but there never will be just one thing that suits all only what suits each of us best.
I also believe smart phones are the future but not just for Buisness, it is Multimedia smart phones IMO that we will see the biggest growth in as both Data speeds and more powerful devices are able to deliver a rich and full user experience.
@Razec
Whilst what you say was once true that no longer appears to be the case as i have explained above the K850 for instance boots slower than S60 3rd Edition FP2 with Demand Paging and it is also advised to restart it to free memory blocks and improve performance so can no longer run for considerably longer than a proper OS can.
Marc
_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-08 13:54 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-08 14:49:12
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J2me really does have the potential to be 90% as good as symbian.
I know J2me and I've done a fair bit of work on the JP-7 platform (K550i)
All you need are these things:
1) Open restrictions. Let the user set whatever he/she wants as the permission.
2) Open up the APIs. Let us override port 0 for sms for example.
3) Make a decent open with system call. i.e. let j2me apps tell the phone to open a given file with the default system app (this is already possible with the browser - needs to be extended)
4) Make a call with j2me api. I.e. let an app declare that it can open a certain file type. Then whenever a user highlights a file in the default file manager let him have an option to open it with the j2me app. (just have to pass the file location.)
5) MORE RAM. Increase heap size to 5 MB+. This will let us use divx decoders, document readers etc.
Numbers 3 and 4 are somewhat tough to do as they need industry consensus and stuff like that. The others are simple as hell to implement and they will make j2me 500% more powerful overnight.
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Posted: 2007-12-08 19:15:21
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My $0.02:
There are several shopping-list programs written for J2ME.
There is one written for Winblows Mobile.
There are
none for S60.
That is all.
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Posted: 2007-12-08 22:33:40
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@Hlcn Twst
You are kidding me right i just searched My Symbian software market for shopping List for S60 3rd Edition and got and got 9 apps immediately here.
http://shop.my-symbian.com/Pl[....]rs§ionId=6686&platformId=4
That is not even taking into account the Notes application that comes with the Office suite or if you upgrade the QuickOffice to the editable version being able to make customised Lists either in Word or Excel.
Obviously if you can't even find a shopping list for S60 3rd Edition you really do have no need for a smart phone as it took less then a minute on one site to find 9 i bet if i tried i could most probably find at least another 10 or so. But please trying to suggest you can't find something so simple with all that can be done with S60 OS is just ludicrous. Your simply trying to find problems that quite simply don't exist.
Marc
_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-08 22:42 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-08 23:39:40
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On 2007-12-08 11:57:01, QVGA wrote:
On 2007-12-08 09:55:13, NightBlade wrote:
Yay! I hate them Symbian and WM OS'es. Too complicated and not as straightforward and good-looking as Java.
too complicated for someone like you, not the other billion population that uses WM and symbian phones.
Whilst java maybe progressing, it will NEVER be an complex and open ended as an OS, otherwise we're talking about WM and symbian becoming endangered!
Through elaborate programming, of course it can! It would be harder but not impossible by all means.
Oh, and just to make things clear, most people want
good-looking and
organized GUI's, unlike Nokia's.Well, OK, you're right, maybe a good 10% of the cell-phone using population does care about installing anything else than games.
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Posted: 2007-12-09 00:19:22
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[quote]
On 2007-12-08 14:39:13, mib1800 wrote:
Badly written code whether java/c++ cause memory leaks. And java is not perfect in garbage collection either. Symbian has its own garbage collector but because its capability (i.e. more complex) there are bound to be more issues.
I dont think so, Memory leaks never happened to any Java ME devices as far as we all know. i agree garbage collector feature is not perfect in java but it was a very significant feature that prevents ram leaks unlike the native symbian code
I dont think this is due to J2ME at all.
admit it or not it's because of J2ME
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2007-12-08 23:31 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-09 00:21:10
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@NightBlade
Is that why there are well over 100 Million Symbian devices shipped by April 2007 check here for confirmation
http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1121530
Then 20.4m Symbian smart phones shipped in Q3 2007
Is this because the UI and performance are so bad? and all of these happy users are all wrong?
How about theses further facts and figures which go to show just how wrong you really are.
Significant Symbian Facts & Figures
Market leader
As of 30 September 2007:
20.4 million Symbian smart phones shipped by licensees in Q3 2007, up 56% from Q3 2006
165 million cumulative Symbian smart phones shipped since the formation of Symbian
134 Symbian smart phone models commercially available, up 28% from Q3 2006
202 cumulative Symbian smart phone models launched since the formation of Symbian
15 new Symbian smart phone models started shipping in Q3 2007, 9 of which targeted China and Japan
8,314 third-party Symbian applications commercially available, an increase of 36% on Q3 2006
Consumer technology benchmarks
289.1 million mobile phones shipped in Q3 2007
20.4 million Symbian smart phones shipped in Q3 2007
1.1 million iPhones shipped in the quarter ending September 2007
10.2 million iPods shipped in the quarter ending September 2007
Cumulative Nintendo DS global shipments topped 50 million units by the end of September 2007
10.5 million Blackberry subscriber accounts at the end of September 2007
14 million mobile social networking users worldwide 2007
Which clearly show just how many happy Symbian users there are and did you notice how many apps are available 8,314 3rd party apps. So not only is Symbian a rapidly growing OS but it continues to grow along with massive 3rd Party support.
@Razec
Why are you continuing to repeat this as in the case of the K850 with JP8 it is clearly not true as it booth boots slower than the latest S60 devices and now requires rebooting to free memory blocks and improved performance as stated and advised on the SE Website.
As for Opera Mini 4 the only real users of this are either people that are trying to reduce the amount of Data used or have Opera as their inbuilt browser. The majority of us that are not concerned by Data use and have the S60 Safari based browser use that as it is a proper browser and really is far superior to Opera or Opera Mini and recognised as such. The only Browser that is better is the newer Safari based browser on the iPhone.
Marc
_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-09 00:13 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-09 01:08:42
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@Charge
J2me really does have the potential to be 90% as good as symbian.
I know J2me and I've done a fair bit of work on the JP-7 platform (K550i)
But have you done any work using Symbian/S60 APIs? 90% as good? I dont think so. More like 40%.
@razec
admit it or not it's because of J2ME
Answer me ONE question? Is the SE UI a JAVA program (i.e. needing the JVM to run)?
@NightBlade:
Oh, and just to make things clear, most people want good-looking and organized GUI's, unlike Nokia's.
Java - nice looking UI? You must be kidding right?
Well, OK, you're right, maybe a good 10% of the cell-phone using population does care about installing anything else than games.
OK, I am definitely in that 10% (vital few). I presume your are in the 90% (trivial many)?
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Posted: 2007-12-09 04:00:26
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@Dogmann,
If I may add my opinion on why so many symbian phones bought or shipped, I would say it is a matter of consumer habit. Anytime when I walk in to phone shop, I would hear some customers asking a very similar question. "Which phone is good? I use this nokia before... Is this good or that good?" Of course to make it an easy job rather the sales would normally say, stick to Nokia this model or that model.. The very same customer may tell his friends or relatives who are not phone savvy to buy a similar model or brand.
The same as Mc Donald. It is popular because it is a well known brand and people become acustome to eating it. Not necesary a good or bad in nutrition point of view. The same thing as nokia. Does it easier to use or way superior than other brand. Not necessary.
@mib1800
oh com'on man, as a user of both brands I must say each has its strong points but neither is perfect. To critisize SE as if it is the crappiest without ever deeply using it is not very right too.
The java programs I use in my SE set are mostly 2D game and some light application like world clock. The good part, mostly are available as freewares unlike symbian which you must donate or pay dearly for a programs that are not even perfect. To me the java is good enough and surely some other people may find it the same.
Just my opinion, no offence intended
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Posted: 2007-12-09 05:56:03
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Hi all,
Guess we are becoming off topic here... everyone has a point and to i already smell some arguments smoking that could possibly lead to another non-sense fanwar between SE and nokia. i suggest we should now keep our post on topic regarding the mentioned title. thanks
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Posted: 2007-12-09 06:00:36
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