Sony Ericsson / Sony : Symbian phones : Opera 9 Mobile is coming - will be featured on UIQ platform!
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Yeah, I do something like that, too. Use Opera mini when just browsing, and 8.65 for secure connections, writing junk on the internet, and when I want to pretend I'm using Mosaic and it's 1996 again, and so on.
But... what I would like, and what I would pay money for, is to have the text- editing functions in the full browser, the link management, the download- manager, the content- pickup from links, etc - on top of a slightly more useful UI, with the clever zoom, full rendering of menus, pop- ups, and so on. A bit faster rendering as well, and I would probably just.. plainly forget all about SE, and all the peroxide in the basement.
..I wonder how the nokia web- kit might be able to solve that? A safari- browser of some kind, but with a bit more text- editing options, and a few useful touch- screen controls?
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Posted: 2007-12-11 23:52:01
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On 2007-12-11 20:58:37, Nipsen wrote:
Well.. in this case they would be actively preventing a product from being available on their flagship phones.. I'm not an economist, but that doesn't strike me as a fantastically clever idea.
No, they'd be preventing an upgraded product from being available on their older phones. Their new flagship phones will come complete with the upgrade. I'm not an economist either, but that sounds like pretty standard practice to me.
..Thing is, it doesn't appear to be hardware this time. With svg tiny support on UIQ3.1, like on the Z8, there's a possibility for flash- lite, and very likely it's the lack of this that prevents optimised rendering Opera9 is using for various tricks.
You're talking as if SE need an excuse - they don't. The UIQ3 phones they've sold to date came with Opera 8.65, they were advertised with Opera 8.65, and they have it. They've also received build updates to improve the browser's performance/security as necessary. At no point has there been any suggestion that the built-in UIQ browser on the phones would or could be upgraded to a wholly separate Opera release with all new features - it just doesn't work like that, and never has.
The P800 never got UIQ2.1. The P910 never got UIQ3. The P990 is never going to get UIQ3.x (complete with Opera 9 browser). It's just not going to happen.
So - would an upgrade for the existing phones make it less likely that people would want to buy the new phone. When you have 15% of the marketshare, you can't think like that.
With UIQ3 they have to think like that - they have to use every trick to maximise sales of
new phones, because it's only by getting more phones onto the market that UIQ3's support and userbase can grow. Releasing Opera9 to existing users might be a nice thing to do, but it'll mean less sales of the P5i and whatever else they've got coming up.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 11:54:47
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With the P5 being based in an entirely new hardware platform i hardly see the new version of opera has what will lead people to buy it
Fact is, Nokia set a precedent by giving Demand Paging to an older phone, instead of focusing only on new devices (N95 8Gb, n82)
Like i said in the demand paging thread, sometime ago, SE did have plans to backport some software stuff to P990, etc...then they abandone those plans...but now you see the competition doing precisely that, and adding alot of new stuff via firmware upgrades, not just bugs fixes...and i am not just talking about nokia - see what apple is doing
Plus...it will be a long time yet untill the new UIQ devices are actually released...in the mean time, do we all think the firmware upgrades for W960 and P1 (at leas), even if they only last 1 year (like P990), will only add bugfixes and nothing else???
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Posted: 2007-12-12 12:08:17
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on slightly other note:
Why doesn't Opera Mini support copy & paste anymore?
I am pretty sure they supported it iat least in the 'page information' prior to 4
Can I downgrade to a beta? I get more problems with the final version
Do you agree?
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Posted: 2007-12-12 12:32:00
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@ares - Nokia's support for the N95 is commendable, but then the N95 is by all accounts a very successful phone, now complimented by a close sibling in the form of the 8GB. Both will remain on the market for some time, and both are at the very forefront of Nokia's smartphone strategy, posterboys for the whole range.
The P990, W950, M600 - these are defunct, and arguably failed phones. SE have already made it clear that support for these models has ceased. There will be no more firmware updates. They are, certainly in the P990's case, something of an embarrasment to SE - models which SE would probably like to forget. Are they going to extend the lives of those phones, and pay (in terms of ongoing support, if not licensing) to give those owners a reason to hang onto their phones, and defer their next upgrade? Of course not.
The P1, W960 - they may have a stronger case as "current" models, and (I sincerely hope) may be enjoying more success, but they still represent the old guard. Under the skin, they are still largely identical to the P990 etc - very much of the same generation. We know already that SE's smartphone strategy has branched away from these models - the next version of UIQ (glimpsed in various spy shots) is quite different, and it will clearly be that version that is incorporating the next version of Opera, as the next in-built "UIQ browser". It may be perfectly possible for them to backport that browser to the previous (current) UIQ, but there's no sensible business reason to do that.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2007-12-12 11:45 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 12:44:44
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No sensible business reason??? Like i said, they have long months of sales for w960 and P1 until the new platform is ready, and new devices are out...in the meanwhile there are new devices from the competition, and old devices from the competition keep getting new value from firmware updares (iphone, n95 classic)...how to boost sales in such a situation...do nothing like you say??? Really???
Boost sales of existing UIQ3 devices is a must for the viability of the entire platform...it is not somehing that can wait for the new devices, specially if you want to attract developers and increase the number of apps on the market
At the same time, from all what i heard the P1 is being a success for SE (we shall see what happens with w960), so there is even more reasons for boosting its sales
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Posted: 2007-12-12 13:11:45
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On 2007-12-12 11:54:47, Boinng wrote:
On 2007-12-11 20:58:37, Nipsen wrote:
Well.. in this case they would be actively preventing a product from being available on their flagship phones.. I'm not an economist, but that doesn't strike me as a fantastically clever idea.
No, they'd be preventing an upgraded product from being available on their older phones. Their new flagship phones will come complete with the upgrade. I'm not an economist either, but that sounds like pretty standard practice to me.
No, Opera 9 is a different product. Which is not possible to launch to any unit available for perhaps half a year, maybe more. And which will be available to other platforms as a separate download much sooner.
Releasing Opera9 to existing users might be a nice thing to do, but it'll mean less sales of the P5i and whatever else they've got coming up.
No, it's a bad thing to do to prevent it from being a separate release. That's all there is to it. And noone is going to convince me that you'd buy a new UIQ phone - just to get the browser. That just defies all reason, when it's available for other platforms.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 13:20:20
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On 2007-12-12 13:20:20, Nipsen wrote:
No, Opera 9 is a different product. Which is not possible to launch to any unit available for perhaps half a year, maybe more. And which will be available to other platforms as a separate download much sooner.
But as you say yourself, nobody's going to buy a new phone just to get the browser, in the same way that nobody's going to switch to S60 or whatever just to get access to Opera 9 (and only then through a paid-for upgrade). It's just not going to happen. Customers of the P1 and W960 between now and sometime next year will have the best available version of Opera pre-installed. After that, they'll have the next best available version of Opera pre-installed, but it'll still be perfectly adequate, and as part of the complete UIQ3 package, not by any means a deal breaker. By the time it really becomes an issue, the next generation of UIQ phones will be rolling out, with a nice, stable, well-tested version of Opera 9 built in.
No, it's a bad thing to do to prevent it from being a separate release. That's all there is to it.
You want Opera 9. That's all there is to it. Unfortunately, what you want doesn't tie in with SE's strategy in this area.
Question - are you going to ditch your P1 and go to another platform to get Opera 9 sooner?
And noone is going to convince me that you'd buy a new UIQ phone - just to get the browser. That just defies all reason, when it's available for other platforms.
Of course not, but you'd expect it as part of the overall improved package, and you'll get it. End of story.
@ares - all of the above!
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2007-12-12 12:37 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-12 13:33:25
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On 2007-12-12 12:44:44, Boinng wrote:
The P990, W950, M600 - these are defunct, and arguably failed phones. SE have already made it clear that support for these models has ceased. There will be no more firmware updates. They are, certainly in the P990's case, something of an embarrasment to SE - models which SE would probably like to forget. Are they going to extend the lives of those phones, and pay (in terms of ongoing support, if not licensing) to give those owners a reason to hang onto their phones, and defer their next upgrade? Of course not.
Precisely, end of discussion...
SE wouldn't even provide a fw update that fixes the animated wallpaper issue for the P990, which is in the P990 white paper. What are you guys talking about? Of course there will be no Opera upgrades for the P990.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 13:45:44
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On 2007-12-12 13:33:25, Boinng wrote:
Question - are you going to ditch your P1 and go to another platform to get Opera 9 sooner?
No. But later, I won't buy another UIQ unit again. And in the meantime others will look elsewhere, and choose a platform where the choice in software is better.
And I already explained to you how this contradicts the UIQ philosophy on 3rd party development. And that's a big deal. So barring hardware- difficulties - which might make this slightly less hopeless: this is not good pr for either UIQ or SE.
Of course not, but you'd expect it as part of the overall improved package, and you'll get it. End of story.
Customers are screwed by the manufacturer for no other reason than so they stick with outdated business- models - which ironically stifles development for the platform, prevents good pr, popularity, and limits the usefulness of the platform. And so sets it's progression as a solid contender back for years as usual. Story continues.
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Posted: 2007-12-12 13:53:57
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