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< Esato Forum Index > Sony Ericsson / Sony > Symbian phones > UIQ vs S60 |Which Symbian is better| come and vote Bookmark topic

@Boinng,

Well that's strange as if it so good why did you move to WM then?

Everyone knows why i left UIQ and it was due to extremely slow and illogical software that UIQ 3 delivered. It really doesn't matter how great a UI looks if it doesn't work well and at a reasonable speed and with outdated hardware it's quite simply pointless.

I'm not going to keep repeating the points or the fact that UIQ has been stifled for the many reasons i have mentioned. Quite simply until such time as SE/UIQ can deliver a device that has up to date spec's and operates as it should myself and many others won't touch it or return to it. How ever great the UI is if it doesn't does deliver a good user experience it's pointless.

As for UIQ has dedicated user base just how small is that now that people like yourself have defected to WM or like me to S60 as it wasn't that big to start with was it?

As for S60 is only a slightly better S40 well i suppose ignorance is bliss because obviously you don't have a clue what you are talking about as a self confessed S60 HATER.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-20 16:23 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-20 17:19:57
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What??? Are you sure??? Who are you, and what did you do to Doggman!!!???
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Posted: 2008-05-20 17:37:52
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In my case UIQ on P1 works like a charm, really fantastic phone and UI, but it is time to expect more from new models coming. So one thing is true, if P5 proves to be a tiny P1 upgrade (208 mhz procesor) I think I will swich to WM (HTC touch diamond maybe). But let's see.
And as I said S60 is simply not for me, not at this stage as I can't bear non TS phone, no way.
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Posted: 2008-05-20 17:38:07
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Honestly? Because I'd used UIQ for four years and fancied a change, and because I'd been offered a very good deal on the Tytn II instead of leaving Vodafone for a P1, and couldn't ignore the fact that it was a much better specified device.

I like the Tytn II and Windows Mobile a lot, and it would take a lot to tempt me back to UIQ - like updated hardware for one thing. But does any of this have anything to do with UIQ vs. S60? No. Because if Vodafone had been offering me an S60 device instead I'd have turned them down and gone for the P1, simple as that. There's nothing in the S60 range that would tempt me away from either UIQ or WM.



The initial release of UIQ3 was botched, as everyone here knows. The P990 was a disaster, and the M600 - which we both had - also had problems initially. Sadly you ditched your M600 before the problems were solved, which is perfectly understandable, but nevertheless the M600 actually matured into an extremely stable, usable, responsive handset. That legacy was passed on and improved in the P1, and I've no doubt that the P5 (or whatever the successor is called) will continue to build on that.



That's great. Nevertheless, in the context of this thread, the UI is important. And UIQ is, without doubt, the superior UI. The fact that it has suffered recently through dissapointing implementations/hardware doesn't change that.



No idea, sorry. It's a case of "build it and they will come", though - if they get the next phone right, people will buy it and the userbase will go up. If they don't it won't. The Iphone had a userbase of none little more than a year ago.



Keep up the tiresome bile Marc, it doesn't change the fact that S60 was built around the same basic conventions as S40, and that heritage is still plainly visible today - it's grounded in d-pads, phone keys, soft buttons, and everything else that mobile phones were expected to have in the last century. It's old, and that's staring everyone in the face, whether they SPEAK IN CAPITALS or not.
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Posted: 2008-05-20 18:13:02
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Boinng,

You're getting my vote for best post of the year. I totally agree with you!
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Posted: 2008-05-20 18:50:52
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@Boinng

Well really no surprise but the only thing i can really agree with you on this,

"That legacy was passed on and improved in the P1,"

As your right it added 64mb of RAM which was a brilliant and necessary move and the legacy it passed on was still having some of the exact same bugs a year later. As well as still no HSDPA and the same now even older processor and that's a legacy to be proud of? I don't think so SE should be truly ashamed that they couldn't even fix known identifiable bugs on a new device a year later. Yet there surprised that only one Network in the UK sold the P1 and it effected sales.

It's such shame that you just can't understand that not everyone wants a Touch screen, and i know i am not the only one that feels this way. It is mentioned on lots of other forums and the sales figures also show this to be true as otherwise we would all be buying Touch screen devices and they would be the dominant factor which of course they aren't well not yet anyway.

Now i understand you and others do like Touch screen devices and that you will accept the trade offs that brings. But the other way round just completely escapes you and appears to be beyond your understanding for some reason.


Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-20 18:02 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-20 19:02:10
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Really? How can simplicity make a platform inadequate for a power user? By definition Power users should be able to add applications that perform the functions that they need/want to augment the original platform purchased WITHOUT having to tweak those augmentations further, but to use them effectively & efficiently! Calendar on UIQ & S60 are pretty much the same, but BOTH can be further augmented - & much better - by LonelyCat Games software. Document Editing? That was LONG gone in UIQ or Symbian - NATIVELY - since the Psion days. Email Support is lacking natively since neither can get corporate Exchange or Domino or Novell email (pushed) without some sort of plugin or partnership with those companies (ie ActiveExcahnge by MS partnership); again NATIVELY as part of the OS or GUI.




I'll agree with you here, but if we're going to mention that S60 is not enough for power users, you need to look much further on Nokia's E-Series and software from Nokia directly aimed at business users & power users. Many times here I see ppl through the term "power user" around refering to themselves yet they probably couldn't make a spreadsheet with formulas directly on their smartphone (3rd Party app or not) let alone a desktop PC. Knowing how to navigate, install apps, or reboot a smartphone doesn't make anyone a power user, nor does poking a touchscreen.

My argument is that I see S60 progressing along with the BlackBerry progressing further & further every 6mths, yet UIQ has only offered us a GUI facelift while some underpinnings to bring it CLOSE in line to the competition for network or security support.

Either way UIQ is not hurting by its own fault, its manufacturers that do NOT see the benefit of using an OS/GUI in an ecosystem represented by less than 4million units (Z8, Z10, P1i combined; rough estimate) sold in the past year, on only 3 handhelds, 2 of which are marketed to the same user base with the same design & pretty much the same hardware. Motorola's latest troubles most likely will allow it to abandon previous official statements of it making it part of 80% of their product mix.

PS I want UIQ to grow & thrive, but I still think that is not pushing it enough, and should make it the primary phone, sheesh the ONLY phone for all those part of its development team for 6mths straight! If thats done then they'll improve it MUCH further and get a clue its hardware needs to be TOP NOTCH!
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Posted: 2008-05-20 19:36:04
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prom1 asked, ''Really? How can simplicity make a platform inadequate for a power user?''

If we are using the word simplicity as a synonym for the word 'basic', perhaps you'll understand that better. S60 is more basic than UIQ. For example, the iPhone UI, as good as it is, is just too simple, too basic. It gives too few options. I'd be limited with an iPhone. That's how simplicity can make a platform inadequate for a power user.

As for the jab that some of us advocates of UIQ should try out S60, especially those targeted at the business end, my last smart devices before I got the P1i, in reverse order, were: E61i, E61, and 9500.

I used each extensively as my mobile office while I had it: email, spreadsheets, word documents, web management, client server administration, internet banking, calendars and tasks. When I used the word 'power user', perhaps I din't really know what I was saying? Most people I know don't use any of their smartphones for 50 per cent of what I use mine for.

Having used S80, S60 and UIQ devices, I can say that S60 is the most basic (simple?) of the three.

Prom1, you finally agreed with me that the two interfaces are targeted at two different market segments. Seeing that you disagree on the issues of simplicity (basic) versus comprehensiveness (someone can help me with a better word), in what way then are the two targeted at different market segments?

_________________
Yomi Says - A non-conformist pastor and mobility geek has his say

[ This Message was edited by: OluYom on 2008-05-21 04:02 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-21 04:57:00
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@OluYom, I understood what you mean by the word "simplisticity" but you didn't define HOW the S60 or S80 platform is simplistic?? You already stated that you used it for many different purposes above, and I'm assuming the same is done for the S60. Off hand, S80 I see as limited in applications (did it have Avaya PBX phone support, does UIQ? Even on Cisco? Does UIQ have UMA support? these are consumer & corporate user implementations, SAP is not there for either but coming to the BB platform). However you still haven't made clear just HOW or WHAT makes the S60 platform "basic" or "Simplistic" to the UIQ platform?

My understanding is if there are more applications - if quality and distinctive (which there are) on one platform than another - that means its more powerful in what it offers & more extensible. now I'm specifically defining "more applications" as being quality & distinct so as not to invoke the thought of the thousands of redone apps for the Palm OS (must be 5 different apps offering the same simple memory management or theme switching tasks either individually or bundled for example). Now I'm ignorant to the UIQ platform in the sense that I haven't used it for more than 3wks on the P990i and that was very "end user - basic" usage. Give us some definitions besides a having a "touchscreen" as being a more advance function or giving UIQ power.

Its seems that you using an S80 are of the "Old-school" lot, myself included. What I'm refering to is that long ago we - deducing & assuming here - used a PDA with touchscreen to get work done when being completely mobile (laptops were not as powerful back then kids and were MUCH heavy to bag around). If I'm correct then the ol' habit of penning around a screen dies hard. I still see no reason for a touch screen other than sentimental value or for handdrawn pictures or notes or signatures. I myself don't cursive write so ledgeably, never have, so cursive writing I try to avoid. Typing is much more efficient for long sentences, paragraphs, emails, essays, data entry and pulling up large forms of data. GUI's from UIQ to Windows Mobile even with Touch Flo still haven't convinced me that using a touchscreen is more efficient to input, or recall large forms of information/data than hardware keys. A marriage of the two is a great solution but so many manufacturers avoid this - a sole reason I think Palm still exist today & ppl still purchase their products.

By different market segments I'm refering to the following:

* Basic user just needing a phone.
* Multemedia user needing a great phone, but likes to take photos &/ listen to music while on the go (public transit, shopping, walks on the boadwalk). (2)
* Power user - needing to add complex or more robust or indepth applications to add more than basic functionality for a specific task that they are after. Also with the ability to do office work while mobile without the extreme need/want to use a laptop, and the ability to work (review or edit) on traditional or open office standard files (MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint). (2)

Now the last two points you'll notice that I listed a number which falls into the following:

(1) Hardward is NONE Touchscreen and has physical keys traditionally and also recently adding Touch Sensitive/Capacitance Keys.
(2) Many hardware platforms have Touchscreen and many have Landscape Non-Touchscreens with full or quasi QWERTY/AVERTY keyboards. Even fewer still have traditional keypads in Candybar, Flipphone (rare in this segment), or slider formats.

^ thats what I mean by market segments. Many ppl "prefer" a touchscreen to review, edit, or input new data. Many ppl "prefer" a full qwerty keypad to do the same. And although fewer, there are some ppl that like slim devices that are still smartphones, and still prefer a "quasi - qwerty/azerty/averty" keypad. Thats market segmentation. As a final example, RIM has already confirmed rumors that a touchscreen BlackBerry is being developed for a specific carrier - Verizon (as their users or the provider prefer touchscreen phones, they don't get much variety in the smartphone realm - WM Pro & Palm if I'm not mistaken). However my points above, regarding market segmentation do not PROVE nor in any way in agreement that a platform is more powerful than another; platforms are mostly software based, their implementation into hardware - shouldn't be difficult, nor limiting and quite possible into various hardware for market segmentations and should be able to in order to survive the long run.
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Posted: 2008-05-21 06:57:48
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I read that you can't even get UIQ3 to connect to corporate wifi (802.1x). And you cannot customise UIQ3 main menu (like sub-folders). No support for UPNP. No SIP/VOIP. No HSDPA support. No support full landscape UI. No demand paging (stuck at old Symbian OS). No full contact search. No profile support. No call recording support. No UDP (user data preservation). No accelerometer. No gaming platform (like ngage). No voice dialing (without voice tag). No standard port/jack.

So UIQ3 is "comprehensive" but inadequate. S60 has all the above. So it is "basic" but powerful. I think this should clear up the confusion.


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Posted: 2008-05-21 07:28:33
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