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@jalu and bossjohnc

Couldn't agree more. Come on the rest of you guys. You might not like having to pay for CC access numbers but it's very simple. They're running a business, not a charity. It clearly doesn't benefit Orange to allow low-end users or anyone else for that matter to use these numbers for free as it means, if that's all you do with your line, your 12 months line rental will barely cover the subsidy on your handset. Also, all the other networks have ben doing it for ages. Whoever argued that "some 0800 numbers may be chargeable" means by implication that some will not needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

We're already getting the cost of xnet calls reduced in the UK thanks to Oftel and increased competition e.g 3 means that you are set to get more for your line rental as well. You can't have everything.....

But for those who do want everything - use Telco. They change their access codes when Orange realises they're CC numbers so they remain free to call. And it's a good service, so I'm told. Personally, I can't be arsed for another bill, an access code etc when my bills are low enough as it is.....

I do love retailer discounts!
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Posted: 2003-04-17 00:41:00
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orange r not charging for 0800 numbers if you are on a standard orange talkplan. it wouldnt surprise me though if it did change in the future.
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Posted: 2003-04-17 01:24:00
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@simon69c

Look mate, I'm sorry we don't agree here but you're not thinking like a business would.

The point is that ARPU is the most important thing to a network.

Think about it. Imagine if Orange had 5 million customers. They allow their published call charges to be circumvented (this is basically what is happening) and their ARPU works out to be £1. (This is grossly simplistic, but it's just an example).

Imagine again O2, the smaller company, only has 2.5 million customers. They don't allow their charges to be circumvented and their ARPU is £3.

Who is the better off company?

Everything a network does is designed to increase ARPU. Nice tariffs, good member service, strong network coverage. It's all there to get you to spend more.

It's all fine and well to say that people will change networks, but lets be frank. If someone intentionally goes on a network different to people they call/get calls from (as in your example) just to circumvent another networks stated charges, I don't think the network will cry too much over them.

I also don't see your problem with their terms and conditions. It said that some calling card services would be charged for, like you said, probably because they thought they knew them all.

However, presumably now the number of companies offering the service have increased as have the subscribers. It makes good business sense to start charging for the 0800 numbers if that is the only way they can stop people going around what they want to charge.

Sure, they are getting some money from you at the moment but some is slipping through their fingers. That's what bothers them.
I read in an earlier post that some calls, to 'genuine' companies are staying free (I don't know an example, offhand) which I think is very reasonable.

I'm sorry, I really don't see how you can be so OUTRAGED and FURIOUS and I'M GOING TO ANOTHER NETWORK angry because Orange have finally clamped down on you stiffing them.

Jalu

PS. Yes you are stiffing them, whether you consider you are or not.
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Posted: 2003-04-17 01:24:00
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You do not 'stiff' a company if their systems and process allow you to do a certain thing! I think everyone is forgetting the real reason for charging.....making up for the reduction in international charges. This message was posted from a P800
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Posted: 2003-04-17 02:02:00
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Just because a company hasn't cottened on to your way of stiffing them does not mean you aren't stiffing them.

You call it making up for reduction in other things, I call it stopping circumvention of call charges. Same difference.

Jalu
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Posted: 2003-04-17 02:04:00
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@Whoevers interested, using calling card services IS & NEVER has been against the law/wrong or in any way devious, some of the networks even started offering calling card services last year themselves, the P800 & T68 both have calling card menus to make CC's easy to use.
NOBODY is being "stiffed" Orange have been FULLY aware of Telco & companies like them for years, they let it go on (they even stopped banning the access numbers every month or so) they used it to get a huge customer base. they are NOT stupid.
Using CC's for landline & international calls is common place in bussiness circles, finding cheap ways to do things WITHIN the law is & always will be GOOD for industry.
Oftel are very happy with calling card companies & they highlight just how much people are being overcharged on their mobiles.
I can only deduct from your views that you either have shares in a mobile network OR you havn't much experience in dealing with money.
The basic idea is to keep hold of money you get & minimise extra unnessesary effort, in turn this means you don't waste energy (a valuable resource).
Telco are a british based company who can give me a daytime call to a landline for 2.5p a minute, Orange could do the same, but they dont, because like all the providers they are greedy, i'm seriously thinking of opening a shop near you,you will be able to come in & pay too much for things, please bring any likeminded friends with you !
I will always look up to companies who have sense to find ways to get a fairer deal for people, thats progress.
Anyway i expect your out checking peoples tax discs.
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Posted: 2003-04-18 00:47:00
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Nah.

I'm sitting at home, wondering how you can be outraged that Orange are charging you correctly now.

Anyway, I expect you're out being a cheap git.

Jalu
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Posted: 2003-04-18 00:53:00
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Yea, i'm not going to call you names because thats for the kids, but i've just come in from driving my new Range Rover & i'm sitting in the house that i own, so yea, being a "cheap git" seems to pay off.

Better remain silent & be thought a fool,
Than open your mouth & remove all doubt !
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Posted: 2003-04-18 00:58:00
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Quote:
We're already getting the cost of xnet calls reduced in the UK thanks to Oftel and increased competition e.g 3 means that you are set to get more for your line rental as well. You can't have everything.....

Lol! Oftel are completely useless! They barely ever do anything to enforce fair play in the mobile telecoms world. They may have "forced" the mobile companies to reduce cross net charges but what have the mobile companies done in return? They've slashed subsidies on phones (without reducing line rental charges) and brought about other ott charge increases as well - just look at Orange Just Talk changes! We are now worse off than we were before!

But back to the point - using CCs is *not* underhand as people seem to be implying here. It is simply saving money through using a competitive alternative! BT/cable companies don't charge you to access CC companies through 0800 numbers on their networks - why the heck should the mobile companies be allowed to? And contrary to some peoples' belief - 0800 numbers do not cost the mobile companies anything - they actually make money on them!

I used to pay high line rental charges on contracts because I believed they were giving me good value for money - however then I switched to a no line rental tariff (OVP Virgin) because I was tired of paying for subsidies that I wasn't even using - I prefer to pay just for the calls and services I actually use. At the moment I pay a similar amount each month to my CC company and Orange. Orange still get all my on-net calls and GPRS/SMS each month so it isn't like I am giving them nothing. Why should it be up to them whether I use the cheaper competition for landlines and cross net calls? I could get PAYG SIMs for the other networks if I really wanted to - then Orange wouldn't even make any money from any 0800 calls I made!

As it happens I have now simply switched tariff so I will now have to pay £10 a month for the priviledge of being able to use competitive services - but I suspect I will still end up saving money.
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Posted: 2003-04-18 15:48:00
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The thing with 0800 numbers is yes Orange makes money from them but not as much as if you used their ways of calling the numbers you are dialing using calling circles.

Also, what networks have all 0800 numbers free nowadays? I haven't heard of any...

Jalu
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Posted: 2003-04-18 15:50:00
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