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@scotsboyuk

i'm not saying K750 is lousy or anything like that. In fact, I think it is a commendable effort by SE. I have no doubt that it will do well. it is just that i dont agree that it will be the best/ultimate during its time.

I am also not saying that smartphone will beat the crap out of the K750. I also understand your point of view that not everyone give a hoot about smartphone. But increasingly many (incl myself) do. If s60 phones are not in existence, then a phone like K750 would be very attractive. Now I dont even give a second thought to a phone like K750 (or any phone as a matter of fact) which is not a smartphone.

My stance is always that you cannot isolate s60 phones into a corner or dismiss that it is not a threat to phone like K750. The reason is very simple. s60 are selling in the millions and they are Nokia's high-end segment. if K750 were to compete in the high-end surely K750 will knock-knuckle with s60, unless of course SE price the K750 lower than entry-level s60. This maybe difficult to achieve as the entry level s60 is relatively very cheap now.



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Posted: 2005-03-12 19:13:15
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Quote:
On 2005-03-12 19:13:15, mib1800 wrote:
I am also not saying that smartphone will beat the crap out of the K750. I also understand your point of view that not everyone give a hoot about smartphone. But increasingly many (incl myself) do. If s60 phones are not in existence, then a phone like K750 would be very attractive. Now I dont even give a second thought to a phone like K750 (or any phone as a matter of fact) which is not a smartphone.


You still assume that they are directly competing with one anothe ron the basis of smartphone technology. As I have already said, numerous times, this is not the case for the vast majority of customers. Most people do not look at smartphone capabilities, they are interested in the more basic features.

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My stance is always that you cannot isolate s60 phones into a corner or dismiss that it is not a threat to phone like K750. The reason is very simple. s60 are selling in the millions and they are Nokia's high-end segment. if K750 were to compete in the high-end surely K750 will knock-knuckle with s60, unless of course SE price the K750 lower than entry-level s60. This maybe difficult to achieve as the entry level s60 is relatively very cheap now.


I believe you are misunderstanding my point, I ma not trying to segregate smartphones into a corner, rather the smartphone abilities.

You are assuming that the millions of smartphones Nokia are selling are being sold because people are buying them for their smartphone capabilities, the majority are not. The reason that so many are selling is because people like a combination of the design, the more basic features and the fact that they are from Nokia, which is the brand they know and like.

If your theory were true then no non-smartphone would sell at all because people would be comparing them with smartphones on the basis of smartphone abilities. If Nokia were to scrap their smartphone range and bring out a series of mid to high-end non-smartphones, they would still sell in the millions for the very reasons that I have outlined above.

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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-03-12 22:34 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-12 19:25:41
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Ditto :-) This message was posted from a K700i
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Posted: 2005-03-12 20:17:40
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@scotsboyuk

Quote: If Nokia were to scrap their smartphone range and bring out a series of mid to high-end non-smartphones, they would still sell in the millions for the very reasons that I have outlined above.

well, that's precisely the point. a phone (whether smart or not) will be in a buyer's radar when they r evaluating what to buy. so s60 phone will be compared directly K750. we may differ in our view on buyers evaluation methodology but as long as a s60 and K750 are in the buyers choices, then these 2 phones are competing and should be compared together. If some1 buys a s60, then K750 would lose a potential customer and vice-versa. This seems to be common sense. Is it not to everyone?

i came into this thread to point out that K750 may not be the ultimate technology phone (or SE's great breakthru) because there are also very capable s60 phones around. so why is it so difficult to accept the fact that K750 functionality looks "normal" besides a s60? SE cannot be the only one privy to best tech and the rest can only taste the crumbs.



[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-03-13 04:18 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-13 05:14:34
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On 2005-03-13 05:14:34, mib1800 wrote:
i came into this thread to point out that K750 may not be the ultimate technology phone (or SE's great breakthru) because there are also very capable s60 phones around. so why is it so difficult to accept the fact that K750 functionality looks "normal" besides a s60? SE cannot be the only one privy to best tech and the rest can only taste the crumbs.


Now we're getting somewhere! You are trying to do two different things, but only one of them is applicable. You are saying that one can directly compare a handset like the K750 with a S60 handset, but you are making that statement on two levels. The first is the correct assumption that the two can be compared in terms of shared features; of course they can, anything that has a similar feature to something else can be compared. On the other hand you are saying that such a comparison extends to the smartphone features of the S60 handset. This latter comparison is wrong.

What you trying to suggest is akin to comparing a PC with a super-computer. Fundamentally they are both the same and perform the same basic functions, but the super-computer goes beyond those shared functions. Of course the K750 is not as advanced in terms of smartphone features as a S60 handset and of course it will come off worse if one tries to make such a comparison, namely because it isn't a smartphone!

However, what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that comparing the K750 to a S60 smartphone in terms of smartphone functionality is impossible, because the K750 has no such features to compare. One can only compare two things, which have something similar to compare!

The K750 does look 'normal' when one discusses smartphone features because it is a normal mobile phone! The K750 was not deisgned to be a smartphone nor will it be marketed as such. Time and again the point is made that customers are not making the comparison that you are making, customers are not going to buy a a new mobile and opting for a S60 smartphone because they discover that it is a smartphone; they are buying them because they like the basic features they have and because they ar enot overly expensive and because they are from a brand that they know and trust. In essence the vast majority of people who buy smartphones are not buying them because they are smartphones, but because they are mobile phones!

The K750 is a breakthrough in terms of mobile technology because it takes normal mobile phones to a new level, along with other models released by SE and othe rmanufacturers. Why they should endlessly have their functions compared with S60 smartphone capabilities I don't know, the mobile industry doens't do it, the customers don't do it, why are we?
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Posted: 2005-03-13 08:20:16
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I agree with scots that most people do not need smartphone capabilities. But, In India, when people buy a better than average phone, they expect it to be capable of doing something. In their case, its support for stupid apps, mp3 capability- a decent camera, memory expansion, and things like that. There's not a single SE in their budget which can do that. The cheapest one being the S700. Which costs twice that of say a nokia 6600. Also an important thing is memory expansion where SE fails to deliver too. This message was posted from a T230
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Posted: 2005-03-13 08:59:09
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@scotsboyuk.

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On 2005-03-13 08:20:16, scotsboyuk wrote:

Now we're getting somewhere! You are trying to do two different things, but only one of them is applicable. You are saying that one can directly compare a handset like the K750 with a S60 handset, but you are making that statement on two levels. The first is the correct assumption that the two can be compared in terms of shared features; of course they can, anything that has a similar feature to something else can be compared. On the other hand you are saying that such a comparison extends to the smartphone features of the S60 handset. This latter comparison is wrong.



let's say SE phone has mp3 player and Nokia dont. Surely someone (i'm pretty sure all SE fans) will say SE has better features because Nokia lacks MP3 player. Why is it then that now s60 has smartphone features and K750 do not, you cannot bring smartphones feature into comparison?? Seems a bit contradictory to me.

Quote:
What you trying to suggest is akin to comparing a PC with a super-computer. Fundamentally they are both the same and perform the same basic functions, but the super-computer goes beyond those shared functions. Of course the K750 is not as advanced in terms of smartphone features as a S60 handset and of course it will come off worse if one tries to make such a comparison, namely because it isn't a smartphone!


that's precisely it. everything a PC can do a supercomputer can do but not vice-versa. so a supercomputer is more capable than PC. if a supercomputer cost about the same as PC, i definitely know which one i will buy eventhough I may not use all the capability of the supercomputer. but then we r not talking about computer. still this reason alone is compelling enough to sway some customers away from K750.

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However, what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that comparing the K750 to a S60 smartphone in terms of smartphone functionality is impossible, because the K750 has no such features to compare. One can only compare two things, which have something similar to compare!


well, if you dont have it, then you dont have it. Removing smartphones features from comparison is akin to asking for a handicap in the game of golf. If this is the case, maybe K750 should not be competing in the master league after all.


Quote:

The K750 is a breakthrough in terms of mobile technology because it takes normal mobile phones to a new level, along with other models released by SE and othe rmanufacturers. Why they should endlessly have their functions compared with S60 smartphone capabilities I don't know, the mobile industry doens't do it, the customers don't do it, why are we?



K750 maybe is a breakthru in NORMAL phone technology. It is still a bit off from the technology of smartphone.


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Posted: 2005-03-13 15:41:43
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Quote:
On 2005-03-13 15:41:43, mib1800 wrote:
let's say SE phone has mp3 player and Nokia dont. Surely someone (i'm pretty sure all SE fans) will say SE has better features because Nokia lacks MP3 player. Why is it then that now s60 has smartphone features and K750 do not, you cannot bring smartphones feature into comparison?? Seems a bit contradictory to me.


Not at all because a feature like the mp3 player is a feature that the majority of customrs want and use. If you look at customer trends you will see that people are buying mobiles, which have all the basics i.e. phone calls, texting, etc and a few 'standard extras' such as a mp3 player, a camera and Bluetooth. S60 smartphone features just aren't a consideration for most people.

Quote:
that's precisely it. everything a PC can do a supercomputer can do but not vice-versa. so a supercomputer is more capable than PC. if a supercomputer cost about the same as PC, i definitely know which one i will buy eventhough I may not use all the capability of the supercomputer. but then we r not talking about computer. still this reason alone is compelling enough to sway some customers away from K750.


I find myself repeating myself to you again and again, it doesn't matter how many features a device has if the customer does not want them. Even if a super-computer cost £1 the vast majority of people would still be unlikely to buy it because they would have absolutely no use for it! The very same principle applies to smartphones, those that are bought are often bought more for their basic features.

Quote:
well, if you dont have it, then you dont have it. Removing smartphones features from comparison is akin to asking for a handicap in the game of golf. If this is the case, maybe K750 should not be competing in the master league after all.


Don't you see that this is precisely the point? The K750 isn't competing with S60 smartphone on the level you claim it to be! The K750 is competing with those handsets on the grounds that most customers use in choosing their new mobile e.g. design, basic functionality and 'standard extras', not smartphone features.

Quote:
K750 maybe is a breakthru in NORMAL phone technology. It is still a bit off from the technology of smartphone.


At the risk of sounding flippant ... well duh! That is precisely the point, the K750 isn't a smartphone and it isn't claimed to be! People will not buy the K750 because they want a smartphone just as they don't buy S60 smartphones because they want the smartphone features, as I have said repeatedly, the vast majority of customers do not care about smartphones, they simply want a nice looking mobile phone, which has some nice extra features like allowing them to listen to their favourite songs on the way home from work or the ability to take a picture. The public are overwhelmingly disinterested in smartphone capabilities!
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Posted: 2005-03-13 19:44:24
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sorry, but who cares where is se ranked? ( according the thread title ) few ppl liked /// once, i used it, cos it fitted all my wishes.... these kind of rankings and placings remind me of the post count threads here...
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Posted: 2005-03-13 21:24:23
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@scots your loosing your time with mib...ill never understand even such obvious and clear arguments like yours - because he simply doesnt want to! Just read his mobile review posts and you ll see why - die hard nokia fanboy This message was posted from a K700i
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Posted: 2005-03-13 22:52:18
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