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On 2005-03-15 04:00:56, mib1800 wrote:
You have to see beyond the enterprise/business usage. Maybe your conception of smartphone is based on the likes P910. But if you look at s60, there r more s60 personal productivity/entertaiment apps than business type apps.


I'll include this point in my response to the list below ...

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1. manage incoming call schedules of different group of people with white/black list support. e.g. divert to phone answering m/c when a business contact calls you after hours.


How many ordinary people actually use such features? How many people have more than twenty or so people that phone/text on a regular basis? It just isn't applicable enough to the majority.

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2. one-touch voice record an appointment and set it to calendar.


Most people have, at most, one or two errands per day, which usually include such things as popping out for shopping or a doctor's appointment i.e. nothing that warrants them being concerned about keeping track of such things using a smartphone.

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3. Life-Blog which track all activities for the day.


Most people don't have a blog yet, it is still some time off before blogging becomes completely mainstream and influential enough to influence people's buying decisions. In addition, it is perfectly possible to write a blog using a non-smartphone.

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4. today screen that shows all your schedule appointments/task


As I said above, I don't see many people being too bothered about having their appointment at the dentist's and a hair cut displayed in case they forget!

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5. personal diary where you can attach image/sound/file etc.


Again not really something that most people are using, perhaps in a few years, but at the moment it is more of a novelty feature.

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6. full-html browser


Most people have no desire to use the internet from a mobile phone at the moment, whether through lack of interest or lack of understanding of the technology. As the technology grows better this will become a very important area though.

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7. full dictonary/thesaurus/office doc viewer.


How often do people use a dictionary or thesaurus when it is right beside them? What makes you think a mobile phone version will be any more popular?

Viewing office documents is not applicable to the vast majority of customers, they simply have no need for it.

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8. ngage games games games
etc


The only area of your list that I can see current customers being interested in, but to a point. People do like the odd game or two on their mobile, but I don't see most people people being too interested in a market for relatively expensive games at the moment. Nor do I see most people using games as a major factor in making their purchase of a mobile phone.

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yes. i understand this very well (i.e. "u dont need it then it wont influence decision"). Sometimes it is just not so clearcut. Say you dont have need to view word doc on phone now. As human, we would always have some niggling feeling that "what if I need it in the future?".


I quite agree, but only for applications that people think they might actually need. A Word viewer is hardly at the top of most people's list. Many smartphone features just aren't applicable to ordinary people.

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A S60 can have many of these "so called" smartphone features over a K750. One niggling feeling may not influence decision. But as in this case, it is many niggling feelings. Are you sure majority of consumers are so strong-willed to resist this?


It isn't a question of being 'strong willed', it is more a case of not being bothered. Most customers really aren't tempted by smartphone feautures, they simply don't include them as a major factor in their decsion making process.

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It is not specious. S60 and K750 will be in the same price range, unless SE set K750 to much lower price. What is left is design. Like you say, design is subjective. For everyone who likes K750 design there may be another who dont. And they will many in the middle that find both appealing or acceptable.


It was a specious question because you removed price as a factor from the decison making process. The K750 will be looke upon for the features it has, if people want those features then they will buy it irrespective of whether it is a smartphone or not. If people want smartphone features then they will buy a smartphone. SE's sales don't seem to have been especially harmed by the ubiquitous nature of Nokia's smartphones, indeed Western Europe remains a SE heartland.

Design is subjective and it would be foolish to try and predict how cutomers will react to design.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-03-15 12:36 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-15 11:52:20
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@scotsboyuk

i think you have lost my point. yes. some people may not have the use of the functionalities i described. I think many people who considered buying a K750 would somehow be more IT/tech savvy than your avg Joe Blogg. So if these people are presented with such functionalities, will it stir their interest and have some impact on their decision? I think a "no" answer is way too unrealistic. But whether this impact is enough to cause a buyer to shift to buying a s60 is still open to debate.

Quote: SE's sales don't seem to have been especially harmed by the ubiquitous nature of Nokia's smartphones, indeed Western Europe remains a SE heartland.


yes. sales may not have been harmed but it is not taking off the way many here expected it too.

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Posted: 2005-03-15 13:06:30
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i think you have lost my point. yes. some people may not have the use of the functionalities i described. I think many people who considered buying a K750 would somehow be more IT/tech savvy than your avg Joe Blogg.


Why wuld you think that? The average chap in the street appears to want what the k750 offers, e.g. basic functions; good camera; mp3 player and not too big. Tech savvy people may very well buy the K750 too, but I don't see anything there to say that they will be the predominant market.

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So if these people are presented with such functionalities, will it stir their interest and have some impact on their decision? I think a "no" answer is way too unrealistic. But whether this impact is enough to cause a buyer to shift to buying a s60 is still open to debate.


Not really, because customers will buy a S60 if they like the features it has, whether they are simply looking for its basic features or whether they actually want its smartphone features. I have never said that there isn't a market for smartphones, but the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of people are simply not bothered about smartphone abilities.

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yes. sales may not have been harmed but it is not taking off the way many here expected it too.


SE have done remarkably well in Europe and they continue to have a presence Japan, a market Nokia has never seriously tried to compete in. SE are not really looking to compete on a globa level because thye simply do not have the necessary products e.g. a range of low-end handsets that can be sold in poorer markets like Africa. SE are expanding their low-end range, but Nokia continues to dominate this market, which contributes a great deal to overall market share when taken in conjunction with similar poorer markets in the developed world.
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Posted: 2005-03-15 13:54:39
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i think i just do a summary and i will leave at that. Otherwise, we will most probably go in circle. On secondary note, some members seems to be distressed by this thread especially my post that dont paint a rosy picture of SE.

1. I dont agree with this thread title that K750 is a leading edge technology phone that will leave the others way behind. I agree though if K750 is compared to 6230i only.
2. I dont agree with you that smart features do not hv any impact on buying decision if one is considering K750 against a s60.
3. I dont agree with you that most who considered buying a high-end phone like K750 are just interested (from functions point of view) in mp3, camera and basic phone features only.
4. I dont agree that SE is the ferrari of phone manufacturers. I do understand this tho. Other diehard fans will label their brand the same.
5. I dont agree that SE produce the highest quality phone.
6. I dont agree with the exertion that people who buys Nokia buy by default especially in high end segment.
7. I agree with you that SE will continue to do well.
8. I agree that K750 is a big step forward for SE.

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Posted: 2005-03-16 06:49:35
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Oui, the K750 is a fantastic step forward. Are your fingers hurting scotty? Much typing! A good read too.

But the main thing next is PRICE .

If mess up the pricing im outta here!
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Posted: 2005-03-16 09:25:15
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I agree that SE have taken the lead. They do make better quality phones. There are other phones with more megapixels, more features and 1 or 2 may even look nicer.

I don't agree the K750 is cutting edge but maybe the Premini II is. Why this debate has raged around the K750i v and 6230i I don't know. The build quality of Nokia phones doesn't come near an SE handset and the UI is a disgrace.
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Posted: 2005-03-16 09:38:41
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Quote:
1. manage incoming call schedules of different group of people with white/black list support. e.g. divert to phone answering m/c when a business contact calls you after hours.
2. one-touch voice record an appointment and set it to calendar.
3. Life-Blog which track all activities for the day.
4. today screen that shows all your schedule appointments/task
5. personal diary where you can attach image/sound/file etc.
6. full-html browser
7. full dictonary/thesaurus/office doc viewer.
8. ngage games games games
etc


MOST of the people who have smartphones do not know that those features even exist. Hell, how many people know how to use Word properly let alone use their phone to edit those files?
For example, all of the people who I know bought the smartphone, just to be cool and they want to be in.
I can assure you that I have more functionality with my K700 and the java apps I have than 90% of smartphone users who even do not know they can download, or how to transfer, additional apps.


Just my two cents...
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Posted: 2005-03-16 09:58:43
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@Wyrus, correcto mundo mate.

As a multi-purpose phone, the K700i is not short on functionality. Smart phone advocates are people who understandably want to combine their phone and pda but that is a small percentage of the smart phone market. Most users only want the type of functionality that phones like K700 have, but in the past it's been perceived that phones like that are smart phones. Just see the confusion about K750, many people assume it is a smart phone because of it's extensive features.

I fully support the goal of PDA/Phone integration, however I contend that no phone on the market offers a really good pda/phone integration that isn't a compromise of either PDA or Phone. Until some new models come out, from any of the manufacturers, that do this much better, I will be keeping PDA and Phone separate. I agree it is getting very close, and I am hoping the next SE PDA phones will deliver something that will make me retract my contention
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Posted: 2005-03-16 10:50:34
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Quote:
On 2005-03-16 06:49:35, mib1800 wrote:
i think i just do a summary and i will leave at that. Otherwise, we will most probably go in circle.


We already are ...

I feel I should at least give a rebuttal ...

Quote:
1. I dont agree with this thread title that K750 is a leading edge technology phone that will leave the others way behind. I agree though if K750 is compared to 6230i only.


The title mentions nothing about the K750 and the opening post mentions other new handsets. I don't think the idea is so much that the K750 is a breakthrough in actual technology, rather it is a breakthrough in terms of how that technology is applied to give an overall better experience to the end-user.

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2. I dont agree with you that smart features do not hv any impact on buying decision if one is considering K750 against a s60.


Then we must disagree and you must ignore the actual facts as they pertain to real world situations. Stand in a CPW all day and actually watch how people buy mobile phones, 9 out of 10 of them will not be looking at smartphone features.

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3. I dont agree with you that most who considered buying a high-end phone like K750 are just interested (from functions point of view) in mp3, camera and basic phone features only.


Well they will just have to be because the K750 only has those features, hence the logical progression to the fact that people buying such a product are not interested in smartphone features.

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4. I dont agree that SE is the ferrari of phone manufacturers. I do understand this tho. Other diehard fans will label their brand the same.


This is an old, and quite frankly desperate charge, that we are 'diehard SE fans' here at Esato. It is certainly true that many of us love SE, but you will also find a very healthy criticism of SE here too not to mention the fact that many here don't even have a SE mobile!

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5. I dont agree that SE produce the highest quality phone.


The products SE produce are of a very high quality, arguably the highest in the business. SE don't always get everything right of course, but they do more often than not. What appeals to many is that SE handsets have a very high quality look and feel to them in comparison with an equivalent product from Nokia, which many often feel look like toys and feel 'cheap'.

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6. I dont agree with the exertion that people who buys Nokia buy by default especially in high end segment.


Then you are going against the grain of established fact. One only has to look at poorer markets to see that Nokia are sometimes the only manufacturer that customers can afford or in some cases the only manufacturer available. Nokia customers are overwhelmingly not mobile phone enthusiasts, they are mostly people just looking for a mobile phone for themselves or for their children, with nothing too fancy being required. For many it is the default option.

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7. I agree with you that SE will continue to do well.


Only if they are able to maintain a successful momentum, especially in Europe, which is fast becoming the most important market for high-end mobile phones.

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8. I agree that K750 is a big step forward for SE.


I would agree and I would go further, saying that it is a big step forward for the mobile community in general. It raises the bar for other manufacturers.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-03-16 12:27 ]

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-03-16 23:17 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-16 12:36:27
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thats alot of stuff to say scotty
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Posted: 2005-03-16 12:37:41
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