Sony Ericsson / Sony : General : Have Sony Ericsson finally taken the lead in global mobile phone solutions?
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On 2005-03-18 17:35:50, max_wedge wrote:
Until then, a phone doesn't have to be "smart" to lead the market, in either technology or marketshare.
Nicely put. If only you had said this 18 pages ago.
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Posted: 2005-03-18 18:12:21
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me to
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Posted: 2005-03-18 18:20:41
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To sum it up quantity wise no and probably not in coming 5 yrs ,quality wise yes but by very thin margin
This message was posted from a WAP device
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Posted: 2005-03-18 18:37:02
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@max_wedge
Indeed, I very much agree.
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Posted: 2005-03-18 20:09:19
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@scotsboyuk
Quote: I disagree, what you have done is use statistics to try and reinforce a point in the face of continued criticism. If you had intended to use statistics to explain your point of view you would have done so many pages ago. Rather I feel this is more of ana ttempt at pandering to baser considerations.
maybe this will sound rude. Am I suppose to "take your word for it" that all the points you brought out without any third party backing is the absolute true situation?
Contrast this to responses to my post, even with third party statistics, no one will even stop and think whether there may be some truth in the stats, let alone "take my word for it".
on your criticism, maybe u want to show me at which point I hv tried to force you to abandon SE and buy s60.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-03-19 01:49 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-19 02:45:44
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i don't know if anyone said this before, but i'll make my point with observations from my part of the world.
at least 30 of all my friends have Series 60 phones, and as far as i can see, none of them have installed ANY application other than Java games (which aren't unique to smartphones anyway).
even the more techie ones among them, the ones who know how to sync their contacts and reminders, don't even touch the Quickoffice Excel and Word editors on their 6670s (a phone which is selling like hotcakes here in Singapore).
and that's the key. i simply wouldn't use a smartphone to do anything serious when it comes to business. ever tried taking notes or entering any amount of text with T9?
so if smartphones aren't for serious business, then what are they for? games. which explains the phenomenon i observed above. or imaging. i notice there's *never* been a Series 60 phone without a good camera touted as one of its key features. 7650. 3650. 6600. 7610. 6670. 6630. 6680.
but aren't these all features that can be had in "dumb" phones like a K700 or a 6230?
my theory is,
not many people really do anything with their phones that needs the power of a real OS. they're just buying one for reasons that some have already mentioned above. brand, perhaps. or the crowd factor. oops, i said it again.
[ This Message was edited by: dimenxian on 2005-03-19 02:18 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-19 03:15:13
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@dimenxian, right on. It seems only s60 fans can't see it! No one is trying to say stats can't be right, but as we all notice, smartphone is not the selling factor that sells s60 phones.
Jeeze, mib, go sit in a phone store for a while like Scotty says. Or talk to people who aren't diehard smartphone advocates. The thread is asking are SE taking the lead in global mobile phone solutions, nothing was said about smartphones.
Your arguments show that you think a phone company can't be considered "leading edge" if it doesn't have a strong commitment to smartphone capability. This is your only real argument that SE aren't leading edge, the fact they don't have a strong range of smartphone handsets.
When the smartphone issue is more important to end users (other than techos like us), SE will become more aggressive in that market.
Like I've said many times, no smart phone appeals to me as much as the available non-smart SE handsets, and I am very definitely techo orientated. Yes I want a smartphone, but yes I can wait until such a beast exists that doesn't compromise on spec's to achieve smartphone status. I'm still finding ways to make my K700i useful, it is a very flexible platform, even given that it isn't a smartphone.
And besides smart phone advocates keep saying there is so much software available for the s60's. Using that argument, you should buy a phone that runs windows mobile, not a nokia.
Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if the eventual consumer market for smartphones will demand windows smartphones predominately (for that touchy feely feeling of familiarity - all these people are coming off windows computers, they are going to want windows phones).
All we are talking about is in the future. The thread asks is SE NOW a leader. And to answer the question; will they maintain leadership? Only the coming smartphone battle will reveal the answer.
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Posted: 2005-03-19 04:54:22
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Quote:
On 2005-03-19 02:45:44, mib1800 wrote:
maybe this will sound rude. Am I suppose to "take your word for it" that all the points you brought out without any third party backing is the absolute true situation?
Perhaps if you would care to read back over my posts you would see that I do provide 'backing' for my points. Perhaps such things as direct user experience or a common knowledge aren't as glamarous as a pie chart (created, presumably, on a S60 smartphone), but they serve well in this instance.
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Contrast this to responses to my post, even with third party statistics, no one will even stop and think whether there may be some truth in the stats, let alone "take my word for it".
Esato is actually a reasonably objective discussion board, certainly the members who are still in this discussion are not overly reactionary in my view.
The problem with the statistics that you provided is that they really don't show anything other than an increase in smartphone sales. When this is pointed out to you and other inferences are made from those statistics you then make the case for bias.
As far as I can see no one has disuputed these statistics; no one has said that smartphone sales are not increasing. What has been said though, is that such figures are not definitive as no set of statistics can be.
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on your criticism, maybe u want to show me at which point I hv tried to force you to abandon SE and buy s60.
What is this rot you are trying to peddle? You seem to be the only one under the impression that anyone is trying to force anyone else to do anything.
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Posted: 2005-03-19 12:04:39
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i think i speak for all SE fans when i say that if there are really smart phones -
we are the ones using them
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On 2005-03-19 04:54:22, max_wedge wrote:
...To answer the question; will they maintain leadership?
they always have, in the eyes of all who appreciate all that SE stands for. not necessarily in sales figures, but i don't care. after all, the best products are always the most exclusive. the leadership of SE (and Ericsson) has and will always be technological.
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Posted: 2005-03-19 16:35:57
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@scotsboyuk
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The problem with the statistics that you provided is that they really don't show anything other than an increase in smartphone sales. When this is pointed out to you and other inferences are made from those statistics you then make the case for bias.
My main point is always that K750 and s60 are in the same competing category. When you want to establish leading edge without bias, you should look at all the capabilities of both phones and not selectively excluding those capabilities that your favorite phone dont possess.
You have no data on how many people buy smartphones without using smartphone capability. Your contention is always smartphone features is irrelevant and majority buyers will totally ignore them like they do not exist when buying a phone.
Way back, I hv
already agreed with you that smartphone features may not be the decisive factor when making decision to buy. I hv said that the smartphone feature is like free icing on the cake.
I can also tell you as a fact that I know lot of people incl. many students in universities who bought smartphone for exactly what it is intended for. Many of them are installing many programs and playing multiplayer games using bluetooth. But did I use this to make general blanket statement?
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As far as I can see no one has disuputed these statistics; no one has said that smartphone sales are not increasing. What has been said though, is that such figures are not definitive as no set of statistics can be.
Definitive of what? Did I use these stats to make a statement like "smartphone will kick the ass of every other phone out there". In fact, I have used the stat exactly what u hv said above (i.e. smartphone sales is increasing)
You r the one who is trying to use it in the wrong way by trying to interpret and dispute the figures by saying those who bought smartphone unknowingly bought them and hence the stat is not reflective of the real situation (a situation based on your subjective personal feel).
Who cares what people buy smartphones for (or whether they know it is a smartphone). As long as rate of smartphone sales increase more than normal phone, it means smartphone is becoming more popular.
If your assertion that people bought smartphone unknowingly is true, then we should see the growth of smartphone should be about the same as normal phone. Why is it not?
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What is this rot you are trying to peddle? You seem to be the only one under the impression that anyone is trying to force anyone else to do anything.
Maybe I should be asking you the same when you accuse me of pandering. I am just responding to your accusation.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-03-19 15:53 ]
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Posted: 2005-03-19 16:50:12
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