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< Esato Forum Index > Sony Ericsson / Sony > Symbian phones > Nokia N82 or P1? For use for camera, music, ROM gaming, Internet, in USA Bookmark topic



No one has said that N95 has longer battery life than P1i. But the blatant B.S. crap from a disillusioned SE fanboy that N95 battery cannot last a day whereas P1i can last 4.5 days on the same usage (i.e. couple hrs wlan, couple hrs talk, few hrs music, etc) must be refuted.

Many owners of N95 has posted that v20 firmware improve battery life, more free RAM and faster with its demand paging. And yet this SE fanboy seems to claim that demand paging makes no different whatsoever. It is for everyone to see that N95 free RAM has improved from 19Mb to 30Mb on boot. The cam/web/music/gallery app also use much less RAM (30-40% less) compared to previously so multi-task is no longer an issue.

And we know for a fact that N95 has better performace in doing stuff like web surfing, video playing and other cpu intensive apps than P1.

From a neutral stand-point and comparing spec sheet, there is no doubt N82/N95/N95-8G are the better phones. Dont get me wrong. I am not even saying that everyone should get these over the P1. For some, P1i may be more suited when TS or qwerty is required. But if TS and qwerty is not essential, then there is NO WAY that P1i is a better choice over the N95/8G/N82.

I just don't get why some just slate the N95 with B.S crap in a desperate move to try and make P1i seems a better phone in general.



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Posted: 2007-12-06 03:22:46
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Ok. So now we've gone from "it's not actually that much better than the p1, I admit", to "all- right it's worse, but it's not as bad as the stupid SE fanboy says". And it even "has to be refuted". My, my. Go ahead, then. Refute that if you actually use the phone, the n95 tends to last you somewhere around 24h.

Because you see, that's what I got when I tested an n95, and that's what most other people seem to get. Even on light use. Example:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.co[....]ia_N95-part_5_Battery_life.php

So go ahead - "refute it". But until then - take a hint, and use smaller words.


That's not multi- tasking. What you mean is that the program isn't restarted again and again, like I explained would save resources earlier. And no, I did not claim demand paging doesn't improve anything. I claimed that on well- written code, it would not have an impact. And I say that because of how demand paging works. Of course - you don't have to trust that I know what I'm talking about, and that I've had this on an exam or two - you can look it up with google. It's not industry secrets.

Also - the "I claim it's faster and better, in vague and unspecific ways - so that means any objection to my statement, or any statement about the n- series, no matter how well- founded, is false", doesn't turn into a better argument even if you or dogmann repeat it over and over. It persists being a desperate wish to ignore facts.


Again with the blanket statements, about things you don't know how works? - What about the games, like I said, and other graphics intensive operations? They run at the same speed because it depends on such things as the bus- speed and the ram- access times. And that's why you still have the two- second "instant"s on the n95 and n82.

And, that's why you can't - for example - stream a 640x480 video- clip at 25 frames per second, together with a 128kbs mp3 sound- track from a flash- disk, without some deterioration in quality.

So while a bigger processor is nice, it's not everything, or something that must improve performance in every aspect. In other words, there's no doubt that some things do go faster on the n82 and n95 - but blanket statements about how it must be quicker on everything involving the processor is ridiculous.

Which, obviously, just means that specs on a phone isn't everything, and certainly does not translate into a phone being "generally better" than anything else. As if we didn't know that on beforehand.

lol!

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But if you're going to "prove" it with technical details and abuse of technical jargon, it probably would help if you had at least some idea of what you were talking about.
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Posted: 2007-12-06 08:27:31
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Are you stoned or what? Where did I ever say N95 battery life is better than P1?



My N95 last me 48 hrs with moderate use. So will you be so stupid to say the with my kind of usage your P1 can last 9 days? Wait... you will



Then I say you sure hell dont have any idea how demand paging works. Your 10Mb web browser code is well written but let's say most of the time only 30% of it is actively executing. Demand paging will only load 3Mb into RAM instead of 10Mb thus freeing more RAM. It saves on power as less RAM needs to be powered up. And big app starts up faster as less code needs to be loaded RAM.



Tell me, what is the "instant" the very first time you start your Opera on P1 (i.e. when it is not already started in background). The instant is more like 5 seconds instead of 2.



Maybe you should go enrol for a reading class. . I said "cpu intensive" apps like video, browser.




[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-06 09:00 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-06 09:57:08
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Hi mib1800

Now I don't claim to know how demand paging works exactly, but....!!

Can you briefly explain to me with a little physics, chemistry and math if required, how much battery are you seriously gaining or losing by loading 70mb into RAM as opposed to 10MB? Claiming better and improved battery life with demand paging seems rather silly to me.

Yes, I do agree that messaging and the Opera web browser takes 4-5 secs to load on my phone. Its a small phone with a small processor, better looking and designed than the n95 in my opinion, (though I do like some things about the n95.) 4-5 seconds, hmm, let me see. time for me to take a sip of coffee, time to walk 3-4 slow steps or catch a breath, time to check the time on my watch, time for a lot of things. Will I die or grow old cos my P1 took 3 seconds longer than your N-series to load the web browser? Goodness people... how much more childish can this get?

Also, my p1 lasts me 2 days with moderate use and a lot of wifi browsing. And that's with close to 20 applications including tomtom running in the background. Is there an issue? Seems to me like my phone doesn't need this glorified 'demand paging' to do what it needs to do. And I can watch movies too with all that loaded in the background. I've heard a lot of complaints with the n95 and chose to go with the p1. N95 did have horrible battery life and even Nokia acknowledged this, there's no need to refute this fact.

Is the p1 great with battery life? No, my K750 would go upto 3 days without a charge, but couldn't do half of what my p1 did.

At the end of the day, S60 needed 'demand paging' to keep their devices running smooth, while the P1 doesn't. That says a good deal about the P1 already. So let's move on....
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Posted: 2007-12-06 10:51:19
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And to okalydude

I'm going to leave this post rather vague and unreasonable. But for deciding to go with a WM device? I don't know.... Welcome to the land of crashes and resets, install software and see them crash/fail and sometimes the entire device. And maybe eventually viruses.

I moved from Windows a long time ago to Macs. How much of WM is built on the same code as Windows, I don't know, but I've heard many stories of people having their WM devices crash on them during mid-call. And if you like to navigate thru several windows to achieve a simple function, then that's you're choice. Eventually I do hope you'll get back to some other OS like the upcoming Android, or newer or current versions of Symbian and UIQ.

Based on the reputation of Microsoft, I always hesitate to take chances. And so far, I haven't regretted my decision. Microsoft hasn't come out with anything in recent history that's fascinated me, ahem!! except maybe ... the Xbox, and that's only cos I loved playing Halo. (I don't own one yet though... I can't control how much time I spend on the dang thing.!!)

[ This Message was edited by: benjijk on 2007-12-06 10:43 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-06 11:01:46
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Did I say the battery- life on the p1 was relative to the battery- life on the n95?

Anyway. So describe what you mean by "moderate" use.
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Posted: 2007-12-06 11:19:45
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if you are in USA, why don't you consider an AT&T Tilt?
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Posted: 2007-12-06 11:21:19
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@Nipsen

You have just proved how amazeing you really are as to try and show how bad the battery is you pick a review of the device from April more or less when first released not a review from the improvements and changes that have been made with the new firmwares and claim this is the current situation. Totally failing to take into account the differences the new firmwares have made and especially demand paging.

I don't know about anyone else but i really can't be bothered trying to discuss things with someone that is just so out of touch with reality, especially one that claims his P1 lasts 4.5 days we the use age you claim.

Maybe those with a genuine interest could follow this link and then the link to the results as it will give you a better idea of just how much difference Demand Paging does actually make.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.co[....]_gives_20_better_battery_l.php


Marc

_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-06 12:31 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-06 13:17:55
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@benjijk



Simple maths here. You need to load extra 60Mb from the ROM (meaning you need more power to access the ROM reader interface, bus, cpu and RAM). It is confirmed by many N95 users with new v20 firmware battery life is better by 25%. I am not saying all this saving came from demand paging alone. Some may be due to firmware optimisation.

For P1i demand paging may not be that essential as it has a lot of RAM but for N95-1 it is much needed as it free up more RAM. But having demand paging have added benefit (even for P1) as large program starts up much faster because it only needs to load part of the code. (In your example, it is time saved between loading 10Mb and 70Mb into RAM).



It is not just about starting program. It is also applies to when you are browsing. I have seen my classmate's P1 Opera rendering web-pages. Opera on my N95 is considerably faster (let's not even mention the nokia safari browser). While we are at it, let's not mention messaging app either . Well, 3 secs here, 3 secs there slowly adds up to a lot of time. .



With demand paging my N95-1 now has more apps running in the background than before (e.g. cam,mp3,gallery,ivcm,smschat,bestprofile,quikey,mini-gps, handy-clock) without issue.

For my N95-1 v20 firmware, I can also squeeze 48hrs continuously with "moderate" use (which will be less than your "moderate" use). My moderate use over a 48hrs period (starting at 6 pm) is 1.5 hrs talk, 10-15sms, 30-45min wifi+web, couple of photos, ~1hr of music and ~1hr min of other phone/PIM use.

At the end of 48 hrs, I usually have 1 or 2 bars left. My screen is set at 3/4 brightness and I am on 3G mode. If I set to gsm mode only, I can get extra 1/2 day of uptime. My area has strong signal all the time.



[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-06 13:46 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-06 14:36:38
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Not going for the ATT tilt because im in Istanbul right now.. its actually proving difficult to find a tytn ii, most stores are telling me they are still waiting... and the taxes on electronics are high.. i may have to order one from england and have it sent to france to a friends and have it brought back after xmas.. i wanted it sooner though..

Also to get the att tilt you need a service plan, and i was going to avoid having one for a while and stick to prepaid cards and wifi, at least while im in turkey and then maybe traveling more without knowing where i will be..

And to bejıjk
im going to assume that viruses are about as likely on both operating systems and if not, there is vırus protection..

and the OS that you mentioned - is that the google one? i actually have strongly considered waiting for it:.. what phones will it be on? Could i wipe the OS off a tytn and install it? The OS is obvıosly a strong part of the phone but the other aspects are what im looking at.. a US broadband connection i will eventually want, a keyboard, gps, decent camera.. and the windows OS has many more apps, skype, bıt torrent (i dont have a laptop remember?) and emulators etc.. i need a true pocket PC not just a cool multimedia phone..

and as far as crashing goes i had to hard reset my p1 all the time still trying to figure out what not to install and what not to run and how quıckly to do things.. i imagine that anythıng else is the same, just be careful and keep track of what you are doıng, be ready to trouble shoot.. macs arent perfect, neıther ıs uıq3 and im just goıng out on a lımb to say that neıther ıs symbıan or wındows mobile... technology, go fıgure


but if ı have to waıt for a tıme to get my tytn ii ı wıll have tıme to reconsıder ıt..

tell me more about the google phone OS and such
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Posted: 2007-12-06 15:48:08
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