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Hi folks
Interesting thread.
I have to say I am with Fetzi on this one.
Someone hinted that Fetzi, and people like Fetzi, are perhaps unduly paranoid.
But working in the legal field with an interest in IT and politics I can tell you it is definitely the so called "open minded" people who are naiive. Nearly EVERY, and I mean nearly EVERY, paranoind/conspiracy theory thought that a citizen may have in mind has already or is about to happen. Some of the things I have seen are absolutely jaw dropping.
I think Fetzi's suspicion is well placed. Don't forget not long ago there was a Member of Parliament here in the UK who's personal data was abused by the authorities. And there are a multitude of examples of the police etc getting up to no good.
I think that this MEND service is a brilliant one if it ONLY required you to log on the database those items you have lost or have had stolen.
Giving someone a list of all your valuable items in advance seems worrying. And in fact my experience has been that at times one should be more worried about abuse by the Police and other government agencies than private industry (speak to any decent ex-policemen, an investigative journalist, a lawyer to know why).
Also keep in mind that when these sort of thngs are set up. They are often sold to us as a great convenience - helping us to help ourselves and the authorities with the authorities playing the loving uncle. At some point down the line I can well imagine that the thing will become compulsory. Big Brother!!! Thus giving the State enough surveillence opportunities to give Stalin multiple orgasms in his grave.
I think for me the option will be simple. I will wait for an item to get stolen (but really I pray it never happens) and then and only then will I register the item with MEND.
That way the database will have only one or two items listed in my lifetime rather than a comprehensive list of everything I own or have ever owned.
.
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Posted: 2004-11-24 20:33:46
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That member of parliament was doing illegal things...he was no saint...therefore, the system wasworking. I would rather walk the streets at night knowing there will be a camera watching me, than walk around with no help, no protection at all.
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Posted: 2004-11-24 21:30:23
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On 2004-11-24 20:33:46, plevyadophy wrote:
Hi folks
Interesting thread.
I have to say I am with Fetzi on this one.
Someone hinted that Fetzi, and people like Fetzi, are perhaps unduly paranoid.
But working in the legal field with an interest in IT and politics I can tell you it is definitely the so called "open minded" people who are naiive. Nearly EVERY, and I mean nearly EVERY, paranoind/conspiracy theory thought that a citizen may have in mind has already or is about to happen. Some of the things I have seen are absolutely jaw dropping.
I think Fetzi's suspicion is well placed. Don't forget not long ago there was a Member of Parliament here in the UK who's personal data was abused by the authorities. And there are a multitude of examples of the police etc getting up to no good.
I think that this MEND service is a brilliant one if it ONLY required you to log on the database those items you have lost or have had stolen.
Giving someone a list of all your valuable items in advance seems worrying. And in fact my experience has been that at times one should be more worried about abuse by the Police and other government agencies than private industry (speak to any decent ex-policemen, an investigative journalist, a lawyer to know why).
Also keep in mind that when these sort of thngs are set up. They are often sold to us as a great convenience - helping us to help ourselves and the authorities with the authorities playing the loving uncle. At some point down the line I can well imagine that the thing will become compulsory. Big Brother!!! Thus giving the State enough surveillence opportunities to give Stalin multiple orgasms in his grave.
I think for me the option will be simple. I will wait for an item to get stolen (but really I pray it never happens) and then and only then will I register the item with MEND.
That way the database will have only one or two items listed in my lifetime rather than a comprehensive list of everything I own or have ever owned.
.
I'm getting stuck into this one!
You have opened your post by professiong your expertise in the field of law and IT. Perfect for this topic. I hope. My problem sir, is that you dont substantiate any of your claims other than to say "what I have seen is absolutely jaw dropping". What have you seen?
Perhaps then as concerened and helpful fellow you might do me (and the rest of the gang here) a favour out of politeness and generosity?
I was wondering, if using your knowledge, you could explain to me exaclty HOW MEND is potentially a corrupt service and organisation that would merely seek to obtain our details for improper use? I feel that is what you were driving at in you message, that I as an open minded person am open to abuse and controversy as a result of utilisation of this service. I would appreciate clarification from you as to how and why you feel this service is perhaps.... dishonest?
Please bear in mind when you reply, IF you reply, that these valuable items that you can list would also be listed with A) your phone service provider, B) Your home insurance company (if you cover yourself properly) and C) The shop at which you purchased the item. And thats just for starters.
So, Mr Legal, tell me please why this service from MEND, a POLICE enforced and approved FREE valuables database should be assumed corrupt and/or a conspiracy. I'm genuinely interested!
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Posted: 2004-11-25 10:12:43
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querty_uk Quote:I read about this on a BBC article today. Have already registered my P900, Creative Jukebox Zen and Sony DSC Camera.
Ok, should be time for me to row back a little bit - donīt like the idea of me beeing blamed guilty for 'garbaging' this thread
It was this quote which lead me into stronger discussion; if this thread was only all about mobiles - then I was wrong; sorry for that. But I referred to this quote and a more extensive use of MEND.
Nevertheless Iīm happy plevyadophy joined me in my paranoia..
And as long as someone is arguing on a topic - heīs thinking of it; thatīs the effect Iīd liked to evoke
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Posted: 2004-11-25 10:18:31
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Hes not thinking it through properly, and neither are you. For gods sake, they arent asking you for the code to your alarm, or where you were at a certain time, they are asking you for contact details, available in any public phone book! For gods sake, junk mail companies have it! Its so easy to get peoples addresses! go onto royalmail.com, and every single address in the country is on there! So why should signing up to help track any stolen equipment come under such heavy criticism? I think you are just being argumentitive for the sake of it.
And as for the lawyer, has it ever occured to you that some of the things that go on are for the protection of people? Its only poeple with something to hide they are interested in. For honest, law abiding people, they dont care. They arent spying on you. They dont have bugs in every room. Get a grip.
Its people like you, with your theories, and your shady comments, that escalate situations. Prime example: this thread!
_________________
Hello, Scroto!
615 green bottles hanging on the wall...
[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-11-25 09:54 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-25 10:47:41
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Quote:
On 2004-11-25 10:47:41, methylated_spirit wrote:
Hes not thinking it through properly, and neither are you. For gods sake, they arent asking you for the code to your alarm, or where you were at a certain time, they are asking you for contact details, available in any public phone book! For gods sake, junk mail companies have it! Its so easy to get peoples addresses! go onto royalmail.com, and every single address in the country is on there! So why should signing up to help track any stolen equipment come under such heavy criticism? I think you are just being argumentitive for the sake of it.
And as for the lawyer, has it ever occured to you that some of the things that go on are for the protection of people? Its only poeple with something to hide they are interested in. For honest, law abiding people, they dont care. They arent spying on you. They dont have bugs in every room. Get a grip.
Its people like you, with your theories, and your shady comments, that escalate situations. Prime example: this thread!
_________________
Hello, Scroto!
615 green bottles hanging on the wall...
[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-11-25 09:54 ]
Completely agree with you.
If you look hard enough for something you'll find it. If you want to find conspiracy and hidden agenda, imaginative brains can come up with anything! Sometimes it really is best to take things at face value... what you see is what you get. Hey, by their standards perhaps even this board is a conspiracy to make us all talk about stuff which can be read by authorities and analysed... hey... we are all pschological experiments... seeing how people interact on the internet!! Arrrrgh!!! Quick... let me smash up my computer... i wont need to register it then either!!! Wheres my padded cell gone??
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Posted: 2004-11-25 11:03:25
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Nice tune. People like you still believe Bush went into Iraq to save us - just because the authorities told it. Why ask? Why spend a single thought? Itīs the authority, they must be right!
But nevertheless this isnīt about adresses or protection - MEND would work perfectly if only stolen items were entered into.
Itīs your health insurance card, your credit card, your EC-Card, your Payback-or-other-benefit system, your movement-profile built and saved by phone company as long as your mobile is on, your next perfect movement profile of traffic and surveillance cams, yes, your internet visit & buy profile attached to your IP - all these information together build a better image of you than you can imagine yourself. Nothing will get lost - everythingīs save(d).
And any information is accessible for a bit money.
This isnīt about conspiracy. Thatīs always the same comfortable argument for people not willing to reflect. Why should asking questions be conspirative? Why is trying to make people think wrong?
There are always two sides of a story..
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Posted: 2004-11-25 11:29:59
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Oh my god. Oh my god. Thats all i have to say. I wish you could see how ridiculous that post is you just made. Do you have a shelter somewhere filled with canned food and ammunition?
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Posted: 2004-11-25 11:39:33
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nope, sorry. But every can & bullet is already registered with MEND
_________________
Pop! Goes The Hamster... And Other Great Microwave Games
[ This Message was edited by: fetzi on 2004-11-25 10:45 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-25 11:45:17
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Posted: 2004-11-25 11:46:11
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