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@dogmann

it aint nice when so many people gang up on someone and i aint gonna join on that. im not saying the tthings he said were good but its not worth fighting over. we are all in the same forum after all. and the ''little snipets of info'' thing was uncalled for, i wouldnt judge one on something like that. now please can the arguing stop. talking about a phone is one thing but this...
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Posted: 2008-03-03 20:58:15
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@w999ismine


Sorry but again how do you know whether he meant it or not? as quite simply you can not know one way or the other and no ones ganging up on him people are just saying they are surprised by his actions personally I'm not in the least.

Was there anything untrue in what i said, No so stop trying to defend him in the same way as others defend SE irrespective of what they do and lets try and stay on Topic rather than discussing Mizzle.

Marc

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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-03 20:15 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-03 21:14:58
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im not defending what he said. your right lets stay on ''topic''... it was delayed for so long and it STILL had enough bugs to plague a small city.


[ This Message was edited by: w999ismine on 2008-03-03 20:40 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-03 21:26:20
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Look, I agree fully with this thread, it's appalling that SE failed to support P990 adequately. But if you think Nokia are any more respectful of customer's think again. My N70 crashes frequently, there hasn't been a firmware update for over a year. My brother in law just bought an N95, and with the latest firmware, it still struggles to run more than one application at once, and even regularly reports "not enough memory, please close some applications" when only one app is running!
It's a great phone, but would be useless to me. If I had bought it myself I'd get my money back.

So by all means we should hold SE to account, but let's not get into the trap of thinking SE are somehow unique. ALL OEM's pull this shit on us, not just SE.

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Posted: 2008-03-04 00:58:26
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OK, I'm not disputing that. But you have to agree that at least Nokia made the effort to correct the problem whereas SE decided to ignore the problem. Do you guys remember what that Sivander guy said: that we shouldn't compare the P990 to the P900/910 devices as they were exceptionally good and that their tests show that the P990 has no problems !
We SHOULD keep the P990 story alive in the slightest hope that other companies will take a lesson from this and not market a product in similar shape to their customers.
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Posted: 2008-03-04 01:41:12
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@Max

I have never said or claimed any different but when we are discussing SE i really fail to see the relevance of well other manufacturers are also bad as the justification for two wrongs make a right makes any sense as clearly it can't.

Re your brother and his N95 if he is running generic firmware V20 and what you are saying is true i would return the unit as faulty as what he is experiencing is just not right even with the first firmware you could have more than one app running. But this has nothing to do with SE at all so is completely out of context with this thread as explained above.

Marc

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Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6, Seven push E-Mail
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Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-04 00:48 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-04 01:48:22
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1. I wasn't replying to anything you said, I was replying only to what makbil had stated. (note that I had quoted Makbil not yourself)

2. I was simply stating, in response to Makbil, that Nokia are not much better as an example (an example that Makbil gave, not I). BTW, I have heard other claims that version 2 is better but still not 100%, so it's not only my bro-in-law's phone upon which I base my conclusion.

Also please note that I actually stated my agreement with you all that SE have been lax in their treatment of P990 issues. I have no argument with that at all. I never said two wrongs make a right, that's just you putting words in my mouth.

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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-04 01:22 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-04 02:16:59
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I agree to an extent that the P990 issue is a worse scenario than anything Nokia has done recently. I don't see why we have to make it an either/or situation though. All OEM's treat user's with contempt untill it starts to affect their bottom line. This is why I fully believe consumers should walk when they are not happy.

Nokia are no different, they have just been on top of their hardware better than SE lately, but it'll turn full circle one day. And you can be sure Nokia will be just as into deniability when they make a big cock-up.

Remember the exploding battery issue? They had to be forced to respond to this by consumer group pressure, at first they tried to stick their head in the sand.

I don't trust any of 'em
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Posted: 2008-03-04 02:29:03
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@Max

I was just stating that is my position and that i don't believe anything is perfect far from it, but sorry to suggest anything is in the same league of being bad as the P990 is just not realistic. Unless of course you know different but i can't think of anything that comes close IMO.

I agree Nokia are far from perfect but they are a darn site better as they didn't abandon the N95 but continued to improve it and the N70 is now very old and was a S60 2nd Edition device and partly constrained by the limitations of that OS. They may even of stopped releasing firmware for the N93 now but at least it received two very quick releases of firmware that resolved most of the issues and improved the speed and stability of it fast.

Even if the N95 may not be 100% now but then what is? but what you are saying bears no resemblance to most peoples reality and experience not even close. Not being able to run more than one app even with the first firmware was just not true and now as it has over 30mb Ram an increase of 50% over what it had previously as well as demand paging performance has been greatly improved and you really can't tell me one app is using 30mb of RAM?. Which is why i suggested he return it as if that is what he is experiencing it must be seriously faulty.

Sorry Max but on your last point you are just so wrong look at what happened with the E90 it was released there was a problem with the keyboard leaving marks on the screen and they stopped shipping them until it was fixed. Compare that to SE who released UIQ fully aware of it's problems as demonstrated by the "Your devcie has re started to improve performance" message and then continued to sell them until eventually ending support on a less than year old device i know which attitude i find more acceptable as a customer.

As for the Battery issue that really is scraping the bottom of the barrel as they don't make them so that was down to Panasonic's parent company that did make them and paid the compensation for the recall.

I do how ever wholly agree with your last statement as i am under no illusion that the only thing any of these manufacturer's really cares about is our money and that we keep on spending it with them.

Marc

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Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6, Seven push E-Mail
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Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-04 02:16 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-04 03:03:46
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Yes, you say it's always been able to run more than one app, yet hundreds of people complained that it couldn't, hence Nokia attempting to fix the problem.

Maybe your handset is fine, just like many people didn't have problem's with their P990. It seems to me that sometimes these may be issues of quality control and not so much issues of firmware instability or design flaws per se. For example many people who kept getting replacement N95's (or K850's for that matter) until they got one that was stable. You mention the K800 erom problem, yet none of the K800's I personally have dealt with have had any problems at all, not even occsional crashes such as the early firmware on K750's experienced. I'm not arguing that there weren't problems, but that the problems were due to poor quality control issues rather than design flaws or faulty firmware.

btw, you keep trying to insinuate that I am saying SE is not at fault here, but I am not saying that at all. Mind you, an exploding battery problem is pretty serious - life threateningly serious which I think counts as far more serious than a phone that restarts all the time (doesn't matter who makes it, the fact is Nokia stuck their head in the sand)

But overall I agreee with you, Nokia have not had any problems as bad as the P990, on the same scale , but they have had some pretty bad problems at times.




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File System Tweaks for the K750 K750 Tricks
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-04 02:16 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-04 03:14:26
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